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Diva vs Sylenth1

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7301 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:39 pm

declassified wrote:Thank you all for the opinions so far! :)
It seems to be consistent with the feeling I had when working with Sylenth1...I could get the basic sounds quickly, but they didn't have more than the basic sound, no pleasant surprises.

The more I'm playing with Diva now the more I like it...it's not like Sylenth1 where most presets make me turn the volume down because it's too loud. I especially like the voice modulation (like on polyKB II), where every note sounds slightly different. I love this kind of variation that you would also have in an acoustic instrument.

I've been using the free synths quite a lot, Synth1 and FreeAlpha mainly, but also FXpansion Orca (great sound, but hard to program "with a destination"). I tried impOSCar but found it a little aggressive. So yeah, I hear differences in sound, but I can't really pin them down exactly. Presets play a big role too I guess. The point is, for now I want to focus on one synth and learn it inside out, as opposed to 5 different freeware synths that each fill a special gap.

To be more concrete about my "deep/jazzy/soulful" description, here are some examples of what sounds I want to do:

Lead synth from 2:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v61nzW7YL4

The pad at 1:30
http://soundcloud.com/losing-suki/last- ... stories-ep

Chords at 3:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiNeGxMkzM8

Am I on the right track with Diva?


PolyKB II, while still simple to programm, has a lot more modulations and posibilities. Try the PmyX and Dmyx engine, or one of the three matrix modulations combined with the play modes, or the sequencer output modulating parameters. With the PolyKB you can program a patch very quickly, then go if you want in endless very subtle or drastic modulations. Then it also have a huge dynamics. This alone can make a difference if you're used to control your sound "with the fingers".

LtZ
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
budweiser
KVRian
 
676 posts since 14 Oct, 2006, from france

Postby budweiser; Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:42 pm

Don't believe the hype ! New doesn't mean better. I tried diva, sounds great, i own sylenth, sounds great, but over diva i prefer zebra, and over zebra, diva & sylenth i prefer Surge (vember audio) : low price, low on cpu & veeeeery polyvalent. 8)
User avatar
Urs
u-he
 
17064 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:06 pm

Lotuzia wrote:has a lot more modulations and posibilities.

But Sylenth has more oscillators, more filters, more envelopes and more effects, and even a stereo signal path.
Last edited by Urs on Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
declassified
KVRian
 
1221 posts since 24 May, 2004, from Germany

Postby declassified; Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:45 pm

Lotuzia wrote:PolyKB II, while still simple to programm, has a lot more modulations and posibilities. Try the PmyX and Dmyx engine, or one of the three matrix modulations combined with the play modes, or the sequencer output modulating parameters.

I tried it for a while, and while I really liked the sound, the interface just kept confusing me...the strange modulation matrix with those switches and weird cross-cables, and the note entering in the sequencer, the oscillator detune knob not snapping to whole notes (impossible to set it to +12.00 semitones), ... :?
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7301 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:31 pm

Urs wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:has a lot more modulations and posibilities.

But Sylenth has more oscillators, more filters, more enveloppes and more effects, and even a stereo signal path.


PolyKb II has a full stereo path per voice, fully configurable, and articulated with the voices modes, and with dynamic modulations.

It's a True Stereo engine, not just pan. it is capable of captivating and intriguing evermoving textures, for example

But it can do strict mono too, like some other synths, just put all the voices in the center of the stage, or turn off the "stereo" switch.

[Thanks for your interest / Just for your information ] :wink:
Last edited by Lotuzia on Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7301 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:45 pm

declassified wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:PolyKB II, while still simple to programm, has a lot more modulations and posibilities. Try the PmyX and Dmyx engine, or one of the three matrix modulations combined with the play modes, or the sequencer output modulating parameters.

I tried it for a while, and while I really liked the sound, the interface just kept confusing me...the strange modulation matrix with those switches and weird cross-cables, and the note entering in the sequencer, the oscillator detune knob not snapping to whole notes (impossible to set it to +12.00 semitones), ... :?


For the oscillator tune, just hold the ALT key while moving the knob, it will go by semitones.

There are three modulation matrixes on PolyKB II, the usual hardwired one inherited from PKB I ( still it can do a lot, and most of the standard stuff you can find in a lot of synths) ( center top )

The one with the weird cross cables :) wich takes probably a few tries to master it, but is very powerfull and versatile. ( LFO can modulate EV segments for example )(center bottom )

And finally the PO mix one, wich has dynamic modulation, and is hidden in the cassette deck. With this one you can really do some unique stuff.

As for the sequencer, I dont know, I recorded most of the sequences in real time, and it works ok for me in this mode.

But its true, like I said some of the most sophisticated functions probably take some time to get familiar with. Otoh you can edit the standard features quite easily (imho) My guess is that sophisticated functions well are .... sophisticated and, therefore, probably require to invest a bit of time ( or ask the good questions in the forums, like you did, thanks for that ) but its also a sign that you won't get bored and still have some things to discover after a while. I'm not liking complexity in se, or just for the fun of it btw, I also like more simple synths like Sylenth, or impOSCar wich do their thing with their own character, and do it well.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
User avatar
Urs
u-he
 
17064 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:51 pm

Lotuzia wrote:you can have a look at our Synthix Synthisizer, its probably made for you :love:

"I really tried to like it."

(my favorite KVR meme)
mcnoone
KVRAF
 
5363 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:54 pm

Judging from your "want a synth you can learn inside and out".
Diva and Sylenth can't hold a candle to Zebra imo.
Both Diva and Sylenth lack the diversity, and depth that Zebra has imo.
While Diva and Sylenth can get that warmer analog'ish tone easier.
They can't get away from it either.
Zebra goes into territory, other synths can't...particularly semi acoustical tones, and great pads. It can do the Sylenth trance bright stabs as well, and the nord lead trance sound too. It can do good analog sounding synth sounds too.
It's got everything Diva and Sylenth lack imo.
For diverse sounds that can do digital(M1-D50) and VA, it simply can't be beat.
But you should get whatever works good for you.
I'll just suggest trying the Zebra demo out here.
http://www.u-he.com/cms/zebra
Then download other free sounds to load and try out here.
http://www.u-he.com/PatchLib/zebra.html
It might just be what your looking for.

I'm not an ad either.
Just a happy Zebra owner for a long time now.


edit:I do need to clarify that I really don't feel Sylenth comes even a little close to the awesome analogue sound of Diva imo, but it is just as easy to program sounds on...if that's what you want.
Of course so is Zebra if you just use 1 oscillator and a filter.
Last edited by mcnoone on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SadPuppyBlues
KVRist
 
488 posts since 9 Jul, 2008

Postby SadPuppyBlues; Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:12 pm

JimmiG wrote:I've only tried the demo version of Diva. The difference is there, but it's sublte. In my opinion, you'll only really hear these kinds of differences at certain combinations of (usually high) resonance settings and cutoff values, or when slowly sweeping the filter. At more "common", moderate settings, most digital filters sound rather good, IMO. It's when you really push them that some of the "cheaper" (in terms of quality, not always price) digital filters break apart.


What's funny is I always thought of myself as a guy who doesn't even like high resonance. Too dancey or strictly club or cheesy or something.

Demoed DIVA, and when you blast the feedback knobs you can get FUNK. It's not hard to get nasty, spitty old world industrial out of it, either. Ugh. I'm coming to grips with the fact that at some point, I'm gonna have to buy this thing. Always thought high res wasn't for me.
liquidsound
KVRAF
 
2472 posts since 30 May, 2006, from US / Italy

Postby liquidsound; Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:44 pm

Urs wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:you can have a look at our Synthix Synthisizer, its probably made for you :love:

"I really tried to like it."

(my favorite KVR meme)
Same here :shrug:
I tried to get familiar with the layers but I was having problems with the UI and I moved on back to DIVA which a purchased the same week together with all kinds of end of the year sales (this time my credit card had a crash) :oops:
BTW I read in several posts about Synthix sounding as analog as DIVA and, as of today, I can't understand how they got to that conclusion. Maybe you need to program it yourself ( Synthix) but from the presets, IMO, there is not even a possibility.
Sorry.
MuLab & MUX, Zebra-Bazille-ACE-Diva-Diversion-Dune2-Xils4-Aalto
mcnoone
KVRAF
 
5363 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:59 pm

:oops:
mistake sorry.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7301 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:42 pm

liquidsound wrote:
Urs wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:you can have a look at our Synthix Synthisizer, its probably made for you :love:

"I really tried to like it."

(my favorite KVR meme)
Same here :shrug:
I tried to get familiar with the layers but I was having problems with the UI and I moved on back to DIVA which a purchased the same week together with all kinds of end of the year sales (this time my credit card had a crash) :oops:
BTW I read in several posts about Synthix sounding as analog as DIVA and, as of today, I can't understand how they got to that conclusion. Maybe you need to program it yourself ( Synthix) but from the presets, IMO, there is not even a possibility.
Sorry.


Yes, like I said above, the layer management part of the Synthix will be very improved in the next 1.25 update. Its not easy to offer the perfect UI for a synth who can propose up to 40 oscillators per patch, not counting the unisson, 8 different filters, 40 envelopes, and as many LFOs including never seen ones, a true stereo image, and a lot of play modes and voice modes. Though some thousands of users did not express a particular trouble or having hard times with the sophisticated, but also maybe overcomplicated functions they propose, we learned a lot during this experience, and it will be reflected in the next versions, where we intend to implement amuch simpler way to manage them, while still preserving all the possibilities.

As for the sound in itself, no need to be sorry, it's true that it represents a certain area of the analog sound, with DCOs, and a certain Italian polished and "clean", or lush, approach. Well a SYnthex, or an ARP, or a Pro One dont sound identical to a Minimoog ( the main ref for most people ) , a MS-20, or a VCS 3

The PolyKB II is probably much closer to what is associated to classic analog sound by a lot of people : its very easy with it to have basses a la Moog, or to sound close of units like Oberheim brass patches ( LP part of Obies )

Ok sorry for answering these few questions a bit OT and back to the topic : Like I said I like Sylenth for the simplicity of it, and its unique character :)

LtZ
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
declassified
KVRian
 
1221 posts since 24 May, 2004, from Germany

Postby declassified; Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:37 am

Lotuzia wrote:But its true, like I said some of the most sophisticated functions probably take some time to get familiar with. Otoh you can edit the standard features quite easily (imho) My guess is that sophisticated functions well are .... sophisticated and, therefore, probably require to invest a bit of time ( or ask the good questions in the forums, like you did, thanks for that ) but its also a sign that you won't get bored and still have some things to discover after a while. I'm not liking complexity in se, or just for the fun of it btw, I also like more simple synths like Sylenth, or impOSCar wich do their thing with their own character, and do it well.

Fair enough about the alt knob, but I think you'll understand why me and the polyKB II didn't "click"... "It's not you, poly, it's me" :wink:
Oh, and iLok/Dongle? Since I don't own any other dongle products, that alone throws it out of the competition against Diva for me.

But back to topic. To check if performance is going to be a problem, I loaded up 7 instances of Diva (MacBook Air Mid 2011, 1.7GHz Intel Core i5, Reaper 32-Bit), playing:

1. "HS Butterscotch" Preset, 3-note-chords, sometimes overlapping
2. "HS model K12" Bass, 1 note at a time
3. "SG What The Pluck", 1-2 notes at a time
4. "SW Magic Flute", 1 note at a time
5. "HS The Plaintive", 3 notes at a time
6. "HS Top Hat", 1 note at a time
7. "KEY Mole", 3 notes at a time
=> That's about 15 voices at once, and a typical varied scenario that would occur in a song.

In Divine Mode, this took 64% CPU, Great Mode 50%, Fast Mode 37%, Draft Mode 31%. Not too bad if we remember that this is more than I'll usually have in a song. I also don't mind working in Fast Mode (I think it's a good compromise), and get an additional boost in sound quality after rendering (in Divine Mode). :)

@Urs: Reaper is reporting that Diva needs 512 samples of plugin delay compensation. Isn't that going to be noticeable when playing it live?
declassified
KVRian
 
1221 posts since 24 May, 2004, from Germany

Postby declassified; Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:10 am

Oh, and I just tried Zebra2. Amazing instrument, I guess you can do almost every sound in it, but it's a totally different thing from what I'm looking for right now. If my music was more synth-based, I think there would be no way around it :)
User avatar
Urs
u-he
 
17064 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:34 am

declassified wrote:@Urs: Reaper is reporting that Diva needs 512 samples of plugin delay compensation. Isn't that going to be noticeable when playing it live?

That shouldn't be the case...

Fritz just tells me that Reaper rounds up to the whole buffer size even if it's only 1 sample of latency. My stuff reports 16 samples, to be on the safe side with awkward drivers/hosts.

Here's a trick:

- open Wordpad, create a new text document
- copy "!BLOCK_LATENCY_OFF=YES" (without quotes), paste in text, press enter
- save as "default.h2p"
- into Diva.data/Presets/Diva/
- restart Reaper

This switches the latency off in Diva, but you need to have buffer sizes that divide by 16, e.g. 64, 256, 512 - otherwise you'll get artifacts.
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