Hardware DSP vs pure software plugins?

[lfm]

Hi

Hardware DSP - do they:

1. provide better quality effects
a) always
b) depends on the plugin using them
c) other

2. provide updates through flashmemory?

Or are what you buy is what you get, no updates?

3. consume a lot of cpu?
Or do they have onboard cpu that actually lower total cpu on computer?

4. What to look for not get disappointed?

a) are there different principles of the DSP systems today?
Meaning if some system have a ready reverb effect, and this is what you get as reverb?
And other systems are much lower level operations to speed up processing and the quality really depends on the plugin using the DSP system?

b) some vendors to avoid - because their drivers are poor?
c) vendor does not have x64 compatible drivers?
d) Are there some DSP that has 3rd party plugins or is it only DSP vendors own?

5. Are there synths based on DSP as well as effects?
Thinking that you might get higher quality oscillators in hardware and similar.


6. I only know about UAD.

Other good ones?



Thank you.

Best regards
Lars

[djanthonyw]

The only difference what so ever is that they are a different architecture just like Intel vs PowerPC. Software is coded to run on a particular processor, and any software, if coded for it, can run on any modern native processor.

[jupiter8]

Hi

Hardware DSP - do they:

1. provide better quality effects
a) always
b) depends on the plugin using them
c) other

The sound is in the algorithms not the processing unit. Now i could come up with some examples to counter that but that's the general rule of thumb.

2. provide updates through flashmemory?

Or are what you buy is what you get, no updates?

That would depend on the device.

3. consume a lot of cpu?
Or do they have onboard cpu that actually lower total cpu on computer?

The whole point of hardware is that they process the algorithms themselves so no drain on the CPU. When it comes to stuff like the UAD2 (as opposed to say a hardware reverb) things become a bit more complicated but the general principle is they don't consume any CPU.

4. What to look for not get disappointed?

a) are there different principles of the DSP systems today?
Meaning if some system have a ready reverb effect, and this is what you get as reverb?

That depends on the device. UAD2 for example comes with a stock reverb algorithm or 2 but you can purchase more.

And other systems are much lower level operations to speed up processing and the quality really depends on the plugin using the DSP system?

I don't even know what that means.

b) some vendors to avoid - because their drivers are poor?
c) vendor does not have x64 compatible drivers?
d) Are there some DSP that has 3rd party plugins or is it only DSP vendors own?

b) Don't know.
c) Don't know. I think most if not all are 64 bit these days. The ones that aren't are discontinued.
d) Both exists.

5. Are there synths based on DSP as well as effects?
Thinking that you might get higher quality oscillators in hardware and similar.

Yes however the sound is in the algorithms not the processing hardware so you can't say a DSP synth will have higher quality.

[Mr Arkadin]

6. I only know about UAD.

Other good ones?

Sonic Core XITE-1 and XITE-1D.

[lfm]

And other systems are much lower level operations to speed up processing and the quality really depends on the plugin using the DSP system?

I don't even know what that means.

You basically answered that in your other replies - you call higher level algorithms - meaning that lower level are simpler routines, like delayloop shiftregisters or similar.

Thank you for excellent replies.

I really have to study each vendor for these differences it seems.

[lfm]

6. I only know about UAD.

Other good ones?

Sonic Core XITE-1 and XITE-1D.

Excellent - thank you

[khanyz]

There are also some audio interfaces which have effects. EMU cards have the PowerFX suite with VST wrapper. Even the old Mackie Spike had a Sharc based mastering suite, but no VST. You had to route it with audio.

BTW: Sharc is the DSP processor in the interface.

[khanyz]

Duplicate Post Glitch.

[mkdr]

6. I only know about UAD.

Other good ones?

One good one to look out for is the TC Electronics Powercore.
It is discontinued, but that only means they are not making any new device designs for it. They just released 64bit drivers and everything works splendidly in Win7. You can get the basic plugin suite with the hardware VERY cheap right now. I just got mine for 80 euros(used). And the quality of the reverbs and synths is staggering

You can also buy the actual 100% copy of an Access Virus B synth for it. All the effects and synths work as VST.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Check out this video I just found on Youtube. It's comparing 2 compressor plugins: the UAD 1176LN with Stillwell Rocket. The UAD plugin obviously requires the UAD hardware DSP system, the Rocket is a $50.00 plugin running native.



Can you hear a difference? I would say both plugins are so close it is almost impossible to hear any difference at all, but I did not watch the whole video so perhaps there are more extreme settings that cause some differences. Youtbue might not the ideal place to judge sound quality, but I think it's pretty obvious both plugins are performing a very similar job.

OTOH the latest UAD Apollo audio card seems to have very low latency (2 ms) when tracking through the plugins, so if you are recording live musicians that might be useful to you.

Peace,
Andy.

[EvilDragon]

Stillwell plugins are da shit!

[ZenPunkHippy]

Stillwell plugins are da shit!

[Syncretia]

Before I answer these questions, try to think of an outboard digital synth like this:

An outboard synth is a very large dongle. A dongle is a piece of hardware which stops you from pirating software.

Essentially, an outboard synth is just a computer in an external box. You are paying for a whole new computer built in to a new box. There used to be a strong justification for this because it would take load off your existing computer and be able to do specialised stuff that your computer was too slow to do. These days i5s and i7s are plenty fast enough for synthesis.

1. provide better quality effects
a) always
b) depends on the plugin using them
c) other

b) The effects are ALL software. The software exists in the external box, but that box is just another computer.

2. provide updates through flashmemory?

That just depends on the manufacturer and how often they decide to pump out updates. Just check in to this before you buy anything.

3. consume a lot of cpu?
Or do they have onboard cpu that actually lower total cpu on computer?

They should reduce the CPU usage because the processing is done on an external computer.

4. What to look for not get disappointed?

a) are there different principles of the DSP systems today?
Meaning if some system have a ready reverb effect, and this is what you get as reverb?
And other systems are much lower level operations to speed up processing and the quality really depends on the plugin using the DSP system?

Go to music stores and try them out. Make sure you compare the sounds to your existing VSTs. Theoretically speaking, an outboard digital synth can't do anything that a VSTI can't, but it might just so happen that some outboard synth sounds better to your ears, and then the purchase WILL be justified.

b) some vendors to avoid - because their drivers are poor?
c) vendor does not have x64 compatible drivers?
d) Are there some DSP that has 3rd party plugins or is it only DSP vendors own?

Can't answer this one really, but my experience with M-Audio has been awful.

5. Are there synths based on DSP as well as effects?
Thinking that you might get higher quality oscillators in hardware and similar.

I don't really understand this question. DSP stands for Digital Signal Processing. So basically all VSTIs and anything that is processed digitally uses DSP. There's a raging debate about whether digital synths can sound as good as analog synths. But, any debate about whether a VSTI can sound as good as an outboard synth is ridiculous. They are literally the same thing. Just one comes in to a box external to your computer.

6. I only know about UAD.

I've never used a UAD product.

My two cents is that outboard digital synths are worthless and should not be supported. The companies who make them only do it because it is profitable. They could port their products to VST or AU or whatever, but they choose not to because it's easier to make money from a physical object than a piece of software.

Building digital outboard synths is bad for many reasons. 1) They are bad for environment: they use materials unnecessarily 2) They take up space on your desk which is important if you want to save space 3) They make your workflow harder because you have to get to know and external system when you should be focusing on your DAW. There are many other reasons.

But, those are my principles. Just buy what sounds good to your ears!

[Mr Arkadin]

Building digital outboard synths is bad for many reasons. 1) They are bad for environment: they use materials unnecessarily 2) They take up space on your desk which is important if you want to save space 3) They make your workflow harder because you have to get to know and external system when you should be focusing on your DAW. There are many other reasons.

But, those are my principles. Just buy what sounds good to your ears!

1) How many synths do you think are made compared to cars being made and planes being used to take you on nice holidays? How many old computers use plastics only to end up in landfills after a very short time? My Creamware DSP cards have served me well for nearly 12 years and are still going, probably longer than most people's fridges and washing machines.

2) ? Strange logic.

3) Hardware makes your worfkflow harder? What if you hate pushing a mouse around when you can just grab a knob? So you just woke up and knew how to use your software, but hardware has to be learned?

At least you said one good thing: buy what sounds good.

And DSP systems are more than just about synths, they can be whole environments including mixung desks and effects and routing. And no, they're not just computers in a box - DSPs are dedicated to one task - your CPU is trying to be a word processor, games machine and porn viewer as well as an audio machine.

[tapper mike]

You'll never get an exact audio reproduction with flash, Most if not all swf/flv encoding is done via mp3 and there is a limit. 16bit, 44,100, 128kbs fixed rate compression. Even at 128k stream it has a tendency to cut off the signal or clip. Usually with sorenson pulling the conversion (the type of hd conversion on youtube) it's actually much lower around 96kbpa.