KVR Audio

golemus · Post by **golemus** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:53 pm

As you know USB3 and Thunderbolt are soon here. I was wondering that do they provide any advantage compared to USB2/firewire interfaces...?

I know that with thunderbolt you can have add more computing power to your configuration externally (UAD Apollo) so that is definitely advantage for those that need it. But if we forget that and just think about audio conversion/input output:

- does USB3 or thunderbolt enable theoretically significantly lower latency than USB2 or Firewire? How about practically?

- is it likely that USB3 or thunderbolt would offer more stability than USB2 or firewire?

- is it likely that they have more stable plug/play function?

- with very high CPU load (a lots of plugins) is it likely that thunderbolt or USB3 audio interface would have less crackling than USB2 or firewire?

I would really want to hear answer from somebody that knows low level audio programming and how USB3 protocol (not bandwitdth but the protocol itself has changed too) differs from USB2 and from thunderbolt

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Btw. a bit offtopic but how is it nowadays USB2 vs. Firewire? People used to say years ago that FW is better but I have had a lot of problems with FW (in windows). So a modern USB2 soundcard vs modern firewire soundcard, is there any difference or which would be recommended connection?

For example if you have a modern USB2/FW soundcard with best possible drivers (e.g. RME Fireface UCX/UFX) would it have any difference performance or stability wise which connection you use to connect the interface to your computer?

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:59 pm

I see problems rather than solutions here. There arnt any audio interfaces on either yet so its waaaaaay to soon to judge anything on them. Maybe in a few years. Firewire is all but dead, whats left isnt compatible. USB is doing ok.

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:45 am

Thunderbolt can carry the superior low-latency PCIe protocol, so it should be a pretty good interface once the developers jump on board.

G

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:23 am

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ApolloQuad/

I think I heard moto is going this direction with TB too. USB3 has been out for a long time now and I have not heard a peep for any devices going this direction.

The biggest problem right now is the market is stagnate. Because the iphone/ipad are the "new everything" there is no reason to have an external soundcard. I mean, you can make your "beatz" w/o it right? So other than music producers (dying at best) there isn't a long term market in many companies eyes.

However, @ latency: Most certainly lower latency is achievable. Look at the TB UAD card listed. It will host UAD plugs AND give you low latency. This wasn't really doable in the past. Expensive? you betcha, but the tech is there.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:35 am

There already is a Thunderbolt Interface out there by Universal Audio - Apollo...

jacqueslacouth · Post by **jacqueslacouth** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:39 am

risome · Post by **risome** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:46 am

UltraJv wrote:I see problems rather than solutions here. There arnt any audio interfaces on either yet so its waaaaaay to soon to judge anything on them. Maybe in a few years. Firewire is all but dead, whats left isnt compatible. USB is doing ok.

Firewire all but dead who are you kidding bro.Every decent studio i have been in including my own use firewire audio interfaces

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:58 am

FireWire is dying fast, but then I think thunderbolt can also carry FireWire.

G

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:12 am

That's an interesting point as the apollo does have fw as well (800, though probably backward compatible). You need to shell an ADDITIONAL 500 for the TB card btw.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:14 am

I'm really disappointed by the fact there are no usb3 cards even being mentioned. Tech is stagnant at this level. It's really a bummer that it's so much harder to geek than it used to be.

mkdr · Post by **mkdr** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:33 am

siriusbliss wrote:FireWire is dying fast, but then I think thunderbolt can also carry FireWire.

G

So we can conclude that Apollo is using FireWire through Thunderbolt

Classic hustle from UAD

risome · Post by **risome** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:44 am

No it comes with firewire and thunderbolt is an add on card for it

http://www.uaudio.com/blog/apollo-faq

Throbert · Post by **Throbert** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:28 am

USB3 is not up to a good enough saturation level yet. Firewire is still around, but the priblem is getting it native with TI chips. Thunderbolt remains to be seen as the end all, but I think it will easily beat out USB3, weather it will be in the short term or long run is a good question.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:03 am

risome wrote:
UltraJv wrote:I see problems rather than solutions here. There arnt any audio interfaces on either yet so its waaaaaay to soon to judge anything on them. Maybe in a few years. Firewire is all but dead, whats left isnt compatible. USB is doing ok.
Firewire all but dead who are you kidding bro.Every decent studio i have been in including my own use firewire audio interfaces

If you buy a new laptop/PC, youll have trouble with Firewire. Its being faded out. The remaining interfaces arnt the required Texas Instruments type.

jcschild · Post by **jcschild** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:36 pm

why no USB 3 interfaces?

thats easy USB2 (with good drivers and thats the key) is more than good enough for low latency and large I/O
case in point RME UFX 30 in and 30 out I/O works @ 48 buffer all day long.
need budget Presonus new AudioBox VSL series rock @ 32 buffer.

Thunderbolt: lets be clear on a few things here.
in of itself it CANT offer any lower latency than we already have for external or internal (32 buffer)
it can offer more bandwidth or sharing ability.

Present TB is NOT full speed and what Intel intended to release and will next yr. thats optical based Lightpeak (the real name for TB)
many devs are holding out for the real deal..
lightpeak just adds yet more bandwidth.

TB/LP i think finally brings the ability for a more "lego" based growth

just plug peripherals in to the TB/LP Hub.

about 10-12 yrs ago this was talked about but more with having the optical connects to a "CPU" (Central Processing Unit) whre just processor and ram resided.

also putting me out of a job

fortunately so far this has not come to pass but i can see it coming down the road..

and FYI firewire is NOT dead yet...

Scott
ADK

Advantages of Thunderbolt/USB3 audio interfaces