Hey, everybody.
I have a question about the XBox 360. I don't know if there are many varieties of it, but uh this is a black unit which came with a kinekt sensor.
I have hooked it up like this:
My TV gets a HDMI signal for video, and the audio is sent to my stereo system using the breakout cable.
I had to slaughter the cable to get both plugs in, but that's a detail...
My question is this:
The xbox seems to have a fair amount more bass to it than my other audio sources.
I have to say that right now I do not have a great DAC for digital sources, so I am relying on the DAC in my ROTEL CD player, and for streaming the DAC in the Apple Airport Express.
However, I have a great RIAA amp for records.
So.
Question.
Does the XBox 360 have a nasty-ass EQ step on the way out? Does it boost bass to impress gamers?
Or does it simply have a better DAC and all my other sources are crap?
The stereo I am playing this on is quite good, and for movies I am quite enjoying this effect, but I have to go turn down my Sub-Amp a little for movies and back up for music. (yes, I realize movies have more bass than most music, but the same movie played on two different sources give different results)
Anyone familiar with the audio circuitry in the XBox 360?
XBOX 360, audio output question
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
I had a quick look at the circuit diagram and it does have some analogue filtering on the output :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23509655/Diagrama-xbox360
There may be some EQ done in DSP also. As for better DACs, anything that changes the original is bad
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23509655/Diagrama-xbox360
There may be some EQ done in DSP also. As for better DACs, anything that changes the original is bad
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- KVRAF
- 16798 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
My TV has a stereo RCA output to feed a seperate amp. Does yours? Can you test weather that changes anything?
That way you skip the DA of the XBox and use the one of the TV instead to split audio out of the HDMI signal.
That way you skip the DA of the XBox and use the one of the TV instead to split audio out of the HDMI signal.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
To be honest, a proper test involves a reference test CD and measuring software. Sound is subjective and the word "better" is meaningless. Flat usually sounds boring which is why EQ of some sort is applied by almost everyone to almost everything. Youve noticed a difference, how far do you want to go with it?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7217 posts since 21 Aug, 2004 from Trondheim, Norway
The reason I'm asking is exactly because there IS a difference, and it's not trivial. No test-CD necessary.
I am not saying "better", I am saying there is more bass from the XBox. I want to know if this is because they have boosted it on purpose. I always strive for "flat". Flat is not boring, it is the most accurate. My amp does not have tone controls. My sub amp can be used to control the low end, but I try to make it as transparent as possible. I always try to get reference sound, not club or movie theatre or fat or anything. Flat = good.
No, I don't have audio out on my TV, that's why I did it this way. My intuition says that the XBox would have a better DAC than a daisy-chain output from the TV, but that's not an issue anyway, since my LG doesn't have audio out.
I am not saying "better", I am saying there is more bass from the XBox. I want to know if this is because they have boosted it on purpose. I always strive for "flat". Flat is not boring, it is the most accurate. My amp does not have tone controls. My sub amp can be used to control the low end, but I try to make it as transparent as possible. I always try to get reference sound, not club or movie theatre or fat or anything. Flat = good.
No, I don't have audio out on my TV, that's why I did it this way. My intuition says that the XBox would have a better DAC than a daisy-chain output from the TV, but that's not an issue anyway, since my LG doesn't have audio out.
Rakkervoksen
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
You contradict yourself there lolHovmod wrote:The reason I'm asking is exactly because there IS a difference, and it's not trivial. No test-CD necessary.
I am not saying "better", I am saying there is more bass from the XBox. I want to know if this is because they have boosted it on purpose. I always strive for "flat". Flat is not boring, it is the most accurate. My amp does not have tone controls. My sub amp can be used to control the low end, but I try to make it as transparent as possible. I always try to get reference sound, not club or movie theatre or fat or anything. Flat = good.
No, I don't have audio out on my TV, that's why I did it this way. My intuition says that the XBox would have a better DAC than a daisy-chain output from the TV, but that's not an issue anyway, since my LG doesn't have audio out.
Intuition isnt very Scientific. Thats why we have test procedures. For audio, this is a minefield as loudness affects everything. You must have seen the threads on which DAW is better and why? Pan law and loudness throw people off. Im not sure if it was you but a year or so ago someone noticed a difference between a cheap portable CD player and his PC CD. He went nuts trying to prove it and got nowhere. Flat is boring to joe public. Thats why sound systems have bass boost etc. If you really want to know what Microsoft have done - email themI am not saying "better",
My intuition says that the XBox would have a better DAC
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7217 posts since 21 Aug, 2004 from Trondheim, Norway
I am a bit annoyed in the first place here, so forgive me if I sound like I don't appreciate your effort, but you are completely barking up the wrong tree here. I know wtf I'm talking about. There is no contradiction anywhere.
The xbox has a significantly boosted bass output than any of my other sound sources to my stereo. I'm not comparing apples and oranges, I am playing the same damn film on the same damn speakers through the same damn amp. From the xbox and from a DVD player. The difference is significant, and I wanted to know if XBox boosts the bass on the analog output or not. If it does (and I suspect it does) I wish I had known before I spent money on it, because I don't want that sort of help.
I want my audio sources flat.
The xbox has a significantly boosted bass output than any of my other sound sources to my stereo. I'm not comparing apples and oranges, I am playing the same damn film on the same damn speakers through the same damn amp. From the xbox and from a DVD player. The difference is significant, and I wanted to know if XBox boosts the bass on the analog output or not. If it does (and I suspect it does) I wish I had known before I spent money on it, because I don't want that sort of help.
I want my audio sources flat.
Rakkervoksen
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
Its a games console. Not reference hifi. If you want it flat, use outboard EQ on it. Better still, take it back
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- KVRist
- 246 posts since 24 Jul, 2003 from Far, far away.......
Is it possible the 360 is on a wrong audio setting, making its output in the wrong format, thus making the output wrong? Have you tried changing audio settings on the 360?Hovmod wrote:So I take it you really don't know if XBox boosts the output or not. Thank you for your time, mate.
På norsk: er det innstillingene på 360'en som muligens forsøker å kompensere eller etterligne et annet surround format eller lignende? Jeg har ikke peiling på slikt, men synes å huske når jeg testet en sang på 360'en til en kompis for mange år siden at vi hadde en slik feil. Trodde jeg hadde mikset helt fullstendig feil, men det var altså en innstilling som ikke var rett....
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
Googling shows that peopel have noticed bass boost on it but no way to disable :
http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26593610
http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26593610
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 7217 posts since 21 Aug, 2004 from Trondheim, Norway
Yup, thanks for playing. I have tried all three digital output formats from the xbox settings.
With the source in question, all produced pretty much the same result overall (possible subtle differences here might need some test equipment, UltraJv...), but they all had the same boosted rumbling lows.
The effect is not subtle. Very much energy below 40Hz. Walls shaking.
With the source in question, all produced pretty much the same result overall (possible subtle differences here might need some test equipment, UltraJv...), but they all had the same boosted rumbling lows.
The effect is not subtle. Very much energy below 40Hz. Walls shaking.
Rakkervoksen
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- KVRAF
- 14739 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
You're probably talking about the Xbox 360 Slim version, either the 4GB Kinect or the 320GB Kinect version. Doesn't matter.
Now here's the deal:
You can connect the xbox to your TV with a HDMI cable AND the official connection cable. There is an adapter available for it which offers RCA and Optical output.
The slim does have an additional optical port however. But one way or another, you're pretty much stuck with what settings that windows box has in terms of the media player. And they are set by the firmware.
I don't know anything abot bass boost while gaming, but chances are that the software (internally) does add something to add more effect. Then again, each game is totally different - best example: Guitar Hero (one is quiet, another one loud as hell) or even the CoD series. It really depends on how the games where made.
The biggest concern I have is the movie player. Since the Xbox 360 runs on a special "Windows" version (IIRC, it derived from an early beta of Windows 7), you're stuck with the bundled media player. And that is "WMP". If it has built in FX, you're stuck as you don't have access to the settings in the OS. The player is pretty much useless. Shame that Microsoft never adaptex the XB Media Center that was available for soft/hard-modded XBox 1 versions (great tool, way better to work with).
What is your only solution:
a) maybe try an adapter for the old TV port first. Don't know if it's shipped with the slim, but my "fat" Elite has the SPDIF and RCA port on the analog TV cable.
b) if this doesn't work, get a HDMI split box with dedicated digital output or even RCA (analog) output - keep in mind, the DAC's in there could be trash
c) don't funk with routing stuff through several devices, or split cables. This can definitely cause the EQ bump if the DAC's don't run in sync
d) you're out of luck and have to deal with it
I can't help you much more other than telling you that a lot depends on the media player, the codec protocols (including replay gain for multi channel environments) and the settings hidden in the OS. It shouldn't do anything different if connected digital unless the DAC really isn't that much flat (which I don't think so, IIRC ASUS offered the mainboards).
All I can tell you:
I have several video game consoles, I never ran into trouble. Then again, I don't use a 5.1 system at home. And your issue sounds like a ground-issue.
Hope this helps you more.
Now here's the deal:
You can connect the xbox to your TV with a HDMI cable AND the official connection cable. There is an adapter available for it which offers RCA and Optical output.
The slim does have an additional optical port however. But one way or another, you're pretty much stuck with what settings that windows box has in terms of the media player. And they are set by the firmware.
I don't know anything abot bass boost while gaming, but chances are that the software (internally) does add something to add more effect. Then again, each game is totally different - best example: Guitar Hero (one is quiet, another one loud as hell) or even the CoD series. It really depends on how the games where made.
The biggest concern I have is the movie player. Since the Xbox 360 runs on a special "Windows" version (IIRC, it derived from an early beta of Windows 7), you're stuck with the bundled media player. And that is "WMP". If it has built in FX, you're stuck as you don't have access to the settings in the OS. The player is pretty much useless. Shame that Microsoft never adaptex the XB Media Center that was available for soft/hard-modded XBox 1 versions (great tool, way better to work with).
What is your only solution:
a) maybe try an adapter for the old TV port first. Don't know if it's shipped with the slim, but my "fat" Elite has the SPDIF and RCA port on the analog TV cable.
b) if this doesn't work, get a HDMI split box with dedicated digital output or even RCA (analog) output - keep in mind, the DAC's in there could be trash
c) don't funk with routing stuff through several devices, or split cables. This can definitely cause the EQ bump if the DAC's don't run in sync
d) you're out of luck and have to deal with it
I can't help you much more other than telling you that a lot depends on the media player, the codec protocols (including replay gain for multi channel environments) and the settings hidden in the OS. It shouldn't do anything different if connected digital unless the DAC really isn't that much flat (which I don't think so, IIRC ASUS offered the mainboards).
All I can tell you:
I have several video game consoles, I never ran into trouble. Then again, I don't use a 5.1 system at home. And your issue sounds like a ground-issue.
Hope this helps you more.