Need some advice on new studio setup please!

[annode]

I don't see any need to treat your recessed window cove. This is why;
- any standing wave that could resonate between the width and height of the cove will be in a frequency range which will be absorbed by your acoustic wall treatments, especially the absorption at your rear wall. So little if no sound will get to, or come from the cove. Also, the level of sound coming to your ears from your monitors will be so much louder,(at any volume level) then anything coming from the window cove.

Don't ever use plywood. It resonates easily. If you need a supporting panel like that, use plaster board/wall board/gypsum board whatever you know it by. If you need a stronger panel structure, use pressed particle board. All of which you can buy cheaply from a hardware supply.
---------------
As far as using acoustical software, it's not going to show you where to place things.
For a room like yours, it will produce a lot of confusing data that will drive you crazy.
The best way to use acoustic software is for 'fine tuning'. Set up my placement scenario, playback a cd of good quality and range, then move your listening position in towards the window and away from it slowly until the bass doesn't sound 'boomy' or 'boxey'...you'll know when the bass is best. If you can, try moving a single monitor height up and then down to hear if one position is less boomy sounding. Rulle of thumb = the woofer is slightly lower then half the walls height.The tweeter level is not as important as a properly positioned bass woofer.

Once you have the best setup by ear, you can use acoustical software to fine tune if you like...but unless your really not able to arrange a setup you like, you won't need it.
Since setting up in a room your size was a new experience for me, it took me many hrs of moving shit around then finally being amazed where it all ended up for the best and most satisfying sound. My Mackies are rated to go as low as 35hz although that's debatable, but they do have a deep bass because of the rear 'passive radiator' design. So it was a real nightmare for awhile.After I had the setup right I added a small sub-woofer which really rounded out the low end. I moved it around without any success. I finally put on a shelf facing it about a foot away from my face when sitting erect. It's a front mounted woofer arrangement, so that why it works like that.
- here it is;
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-IqLMDJtbuL ... erview-tab

I'll post a pix of my setup soon. I've been wiring so things are not where they should be at the moment.
PS: if you can get a hold of one of those pro multi-tracks of known artists like Peter Gabriel or Madonna...they are all dry tracks and a great listening tool when fine tuning your placements. (PM me for more info on that)

[bigdaveo11]

thank you annode, very helpful. I will most likely plug the window with gypsum (or another recommended material) just to cover up the window permanently and then mount my acoustic treatment, instead of attempting to wall off/seal the entire alcove.

Great advice on the acoustic software. I have been reading up on it and how to interpret the graphs and as you said It could be useful for placing my monitors/listening position and additionally being able to see the improvements made in the room before/after treatment. The only investment regarding acoustics software would be purchasing the behringer ecm 8000 microphone for testing so I think i might go ahead with it. But on the other hand sounds like you have had plenty of success just using your ear and moving items around so I need to go by that first before I get caught up in graphs.

Interesting about the sub placement. Something that I might be needing to add down the road once I have the proper treatment set up. I am a little worried about my studio partners monitors (MAUDIO BX8) as he purchased them some time ago and the reviews aren't the best. I have KRK 5's but I am unsure about using them in that room since they are smaller and I need a bigger lower end response for the genre of music I am producing (hence adding a sub) but obviously I was very hesitant about adding a sub until I was sure on my treatment. The sub you posted looks pretty sweet!

I will keep this thread updated on the matter in the next month as I move residences and begin to purchase/set up the room. Just received two room analysis forms back from Auralex and GIK, provided some good info as well.

Appreciate the time.

[annode]

Glad to help out.
So unless your wealthy , obsessive compulsive , have an anal fixation or your just a full out masochist, you need not get too technical about treating the room with bass traps and high priced acoustic materials from some anal company.

I lucked out and got my panels from some business that closed and left all of them there. I also found some heavy duty absorption and blocking panels from another office business who left. Try going into a large office building and ask about recent vacancies, maybe you'll find some!
If your handy, they're real easy and cheap to construct. The cheaply fabricated panels are all that you need on your walls. No need for special foam from from planet 'Zircon'. Don't waste you money.

I promised a pix of my room and i'll have one...just need to move my console back in position. Post a pix tonight.
And really...just set up your stuff like I proposed and you'll see that's the best placing for the least bass probs and best stereo image. Then if you need to go mad..start moving all your stuff around from there.

Get a front loaded sub like the Sony for example to go with your KRKs. You'll be fine. I use a Behringer 6 channel mixer between my sound-card and monitors, and have the sub input plugged into my mixer headphone out with a stereo to mono adapter cable....this sends Lft and Rgt channels to the powered sub without causing any disturbance to the monitor's stereo signals.
This is also good because you can adjust the sub volume from your listening position with your headphone level for the best balance.

[soundmagus]

Test with REW - this will give you all the info required.

[rifftrax]

I predict huge phase problems in the crossover frequency range of the subwoofer and monitors. I actually tried this once, except I positioned the subwoofer behind the listening spot. Nothing could have fixed the awful cancellation besides an active crossover, and those are not cheap.

LOL, active x-overs are cheap. I got my excellent dbx 223xl off of ebay for like $100 used.

[annode]

Test with REW - this will give you all the info required.

Maybe it would if you 'give all the info required'.

[soundmagus]

The OP knows what i am referring to as its well discussed in his Gearsluts thread hence no need to elaborate here for him, but for you NP

REW - http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

[camsr]

I predict huge phase problems in the crossover frequency range of the subwoofer and monitors. I actually tried this once, except I positioned the subwoofer behind the listening spot. Nothing could have fixed the awful cancellation besides an active crossover, and those are not cheap.

LOL, active x-overs are cheap. I got my excellent dbx 223xl off of ebay for like $100 used.

Everything has a cheap alternative! DBX, not cheap but well priced. Noise is a big concern with active crossovers, so any discerning customer is going to read reviews and weight their options.

Having a phase reverse for the subwoofer might have fixed the issue I had, but I don't care for the setup in general. Remember, it's not only a crossover and phase reverse that is optimal, but also a delay. Right there is your AD/DA, and now you have increased your price range. With a subwoofer I would prefer it to be with the same baffle as the other drivers, but it is a respectable config to have it out and open.

[annode]

The OP knows what i am referring to as its well discussed in his Gearsluts thread hence no need to elaborate here for him, but for you NP

REW - http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Ah...I didn't know that. Also, thanks for the link.
I read a good deal around the REW site, and I have a few remarks if I may.
I didn't read every thing in the forum of course, but the site as a whole doesn't seem to give nearly enough practical info on the software. It appears you would really
have to dig for it. And those who are not so technical would have a hard time with it.

The do it yourself treatment sections in the forums are useful for sure. But for one fabricating a simple home studio, it very anal and specialized in the direction of mid-field listening...at the very least. Near field is not as anal for treatments since it's intended that the listener be very close to the monitors. My point here is... to take all this with a grain of salt as it were. If one sweet spot is all you need, and your close to the monitors you don't need to go to great trouble and expense for treatment, not to mention bass trapping.
Like I was saying earlier, acoustical software for a nearfield setup is limited in it's practical use.

This is my opinion. I don't want to divert the topic...just wanted to add another view.

[annode]

As promised...for what it's worth;




Note: The equipment rack is normally pushed against the wall. I'm still setting up the room.
The Sony sub is normally sitting up top of the rack...you see the shelf for it.
The panel legs were originally mounted around the panel. I moved it down to raise the panels and they just wedge against the floor and the ceiling.

[soundmagus]

@annode - actually i found the REW software and acoustic mic i purchased invaluable when creating my small home studio.

It helps you ascertain where to arrange your early reflections, secondary reflection and cloud all aimed at the "perfect" listening position which off-course helps you even more with your listening position although the 38% rule is normally pretty accurate.

Also with reflections of the back wall again REW worked wonders to help me clear up standing waves, or at least dampen them and readjust my listening position if needed.

Its a great piece of software and even though we are using near-fields the room still very much comes into play, especially with early reflections and standing waves along with a critical listening position.

Mark

PS all of my traps where home made with Rockwool and a material to hod the Rockwool in the wooden frame i had constructed.

PPS - here is a 360 degree picture of my studio when i was building it

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=7ff ... :0&t=False

[annode]

I totally agree with what your saying soundmagus.
I don't disagree that any acoustical software can come in handy in certain situations.
I earlier said it could be useful for fine tuning when not in a difficult room to treat, like the OP is in.
Your room appears to have been an acoustical nightmare with all the glass and having the monitors placed in the corners. Many ppl don't have such problems and don't need
heavy duty treatments. That was the point I was trying to make in a nutshell so to speak.
Haa...the Silverlight surround was a bit annoying to use, but sorta cool at the same time. Talking with a resident of Thailand is rather cool too.

[bigdaveo11]

sweet studio pictures guys!...looking good! Nice/motivating to see others work/setups.

had another quick question which I am going to ask over on gearslutz as well. Auralex sent me back their room analysis and mentioned leaving the closet open and filling it with cushions/pillows/blankets. I wasn't sure if I should fill the closet with absorbing materials like these but close the doors and mount a panel(s) on the outside of the closet. If my listening position fires down the longest length with the asymmetrical areas behind me, then the closet would present itself as a point of first reflection.

[soundmagus]

bigdave11 - If it where me i would do both especially if i was DIY'ing it

annode - yeah your right its a bit strange that photosynth :O here are some links to some of the threads i used on gearslutz

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-b ... lease.html

[annode]

sweet studio pictures guys!...looking good! Nice/motivating to see others work/setups.

had another quick question which I am going to ask over on gearslutz as well. Auralex sent me back their room analysis and mentioned leaving the closet open and filling it with cushions/pillows/blankets. I wasn't sure if I should fill the closet with absorbing materials like these but close the doors and mount a panel(s) on the outside of the closet. If my listening position fires down the longest length with the asymmetrical areas behind me, then the closet would present itself as a point of first reflection.

I have a closet in my space and i'd hate to lose it. (for me, as you know already, i'm not one to be so critical about such resonances.) But since your wanting to 'do it up', so to speak , I would suggest saving the closet space and using a different method.

Dig up a length of pressed particle board and somehow attach it to the rear side of the door.Cut it into two pieces, one bigger then the other. Don't need to cover the full surface area of the door...but much of it. Offset each half non-symmetrical to one another on the door surface. This will reflect sound and inhibit resonance within the closet and out again. Now the door is treated as if it were part of the wall.

I don't agree with Real Trap's use of 'Mode Calc'. It's great to use, but they only give you the theory, not real world application. Here's why;
- Two unknowns are not considered. The position of the monitors, the position of the listener and how the batting treatment is attenuating the resonant frequencies.
- Generating sine waves as for-example, from a monitor, the wavelength to the back wall is that distance. What ever level of reflection bouncing off of that wall will be equal to the monitor position only...in most all cases.
- What comes back off the front wall can add to that standing wave somewhat and can cancel out the standing wave to some degree as well.
- calculating the standing wavelength/resonant frequency between mon and back wall, and back wall to front wall will be the numbers that will give you what you need to know in order find an acceptable mon placement. (with other things also considered below)
- Why? You put the mons position so that both reflected wavelengths are canceled out at the listening position. You would also need to know the SPL level from the back wall, and the level from the front wall in relation to the listening position that is chosen. You want them to be equal . You now hear just what is coming from the mon to your ears and nothing more. The room now doesn't exist as far as adjacent wall modes.
- I read you asking about how to go about finding positioning as well as where to place your traps in relation to you chosen listening position.

I'm going get some flack about this by others...but it makes sense to me and is logical.
- As far as the glass goes, i'd hang drapes as thick and heavy as you can find or layer them. Then match the trapping on the adjacent wall to accomplish the same result as what you did for the front/back walls...in respect to the listening position.
- I also recommend one or two rugs, as needed, to prevent reflection off of your floor from the mons to your ears.
- and this is also important...position your equipment in front of you, as best as possible, so that upper frequency sound from the mons are not bouncing off their surfaces and to your ears. Minimize this. The difference between the time the sound from the reflection and the sound from your mons directly to your ears, reaches you it causes a 'combing' effect.
Combing is phase cancellation of upper frequencies to your ears. Mixing desks or any flat surfaces between you and the mons will cause combing. It's very noticeable when it's there and when it's not there...trust me.

Your not going to read this anywhere, (except for combing) so don't look for it..haha This is all coming from my head.
PS: oh and the Gearslutz photos were much easier to get a perspective.