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Hey Guys,
Been learning all about stereo/mono lately and how to widen sounds (specifically mids/highs and leaving my bass mono). Anyway... I was wondering when you widen a sound do you just pick one certain technique (duplicating tracks/detuning, using the pan knob, chorus, delay, reverb, dedicated stereo wideners etc...*feel free to name more). I assume its just personal preference, but do you consider anything specifically when deciding which method use? What about combining multiple methods? I know you have to be aware of phase/mono compatibility, I guess this would affect your decision as well. Appreciate any responses!  |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Member: #265816 Location: Seattle, WA | ||
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I think stereo widening is overdone very often. Actually if you stereo widen every instrument, it's nothing but a muddy something. So it's mostly comes down to 1-2 instruments that I would widen ...or chose a preset that is already wide.
One of the "instruments" is mostly the vocal. I don't like chorus on the main vocal, so it's mostly about layering different takes and panning them left and right. On synths and guitar I love chorus ...but I always try out different choruses in combination with flagers or phasers. However, I think you need to try out a lot until you have that magic moment where it sounds just right. My basic rule always is: if you have a mighty basic instrumental, keep the vocals and solo instruments narrow and softer. If you have a soft instrumental (like a ballad) and it's the vocals and maybe a solo guitar that need to sound big, then you might wanna go for a wide sound on these elements. |
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| ^ | Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Member: #242996 | ||
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Very good point on only making a few sounds wide. My end goal is to play back some of my tracks on club system and I have heard that some of these bigger systems playback in mono, I assume hard panning might result in some problems/disappearance of sounds when checking the mix in mono by inserting a plug in utility on the master or w/e instrument/synth you are checking for.
Thanks again! |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Member: #265816 Location: Seattle, WA | ||
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have asked similar question recently. very good tips there:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4902206#490220 6 |
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| ^ | Joined: 16 Dec 2002 Member: #5032 Location: Bristol UK | ||
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Well, there are also car radios that switch to mono when the signal is too weak.
But I don't know if it's worth trying to give up on a part of sound quality for that. If you want to do that, you can try and make your mix sound good in mono and stereo by using mono reverb in addition to the stereo one. Also you can try and only widen elements that are not essential to the mix (for example a pad that would add some extra excitement when played in stereo). I'd definitely not do any hard panning with drum elements (especially in dance music). |
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| ^ | Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Member: #242996 | ||
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Thanks for the tips.
Great thread link as well! I will read through it now. |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Member: #265816 Location: Seattle, WA | ||
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great stuff both in this thread and the other that is linked here! learned a few small tips and tricks. I wonder though, can you do the same in Logic as in Ableton with the Utility plugin, where you can narrow down only the sides?
"Gain" would be that plugin but in Logic, but I don't see an option for that on it? Cheers |
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| ^ | Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Member: #267740 Location: Sverige | ||
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Utility is actually a multieffect and I doubt that it exists in exactly the same form in other other DAW.
If you can't find a stereo widener, you can try an equalizer with M/S mode. To narrow down the sound, you can level down the side signal amount or level up the mid signal amount. |
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| ^ | Joined: 06 Nov 2010 Member: #242996 | ||
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To get things wider - never had that problem.
Rather the other way, having plugs that generate stereo that takes up the full left-to-right getting sometimes called Big Mono thingy. Among others I'm fond of B4 Organ and leslie simulation. Tested today with Waves S1 and it did exactly what I hoped for. Just turning Width fader down a bit the leslie got more narrow as standing in a corner of the room kind of. Really nice. So having sampler libraries and synths in stereo and having the BIG MONO problem my tip is S1 plug. |
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| ^ | Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Member: #55586 Location: Sweden | ||
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I've posted several tips in this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347945 I like to use lots of different techniques: inter aural time difference, splitting a mono signal and effecting each channel differently, effecting the sides, moving pan, ping pong delay and so on. It's not a question of what is best, it's a question of what sounds best in the mix at that point in time. |
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| ^ | Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Member: #262305 | ||
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Syncretia wrote: I've posted several tips in this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347945 I like to use lots of different techniques: inter aural time difference, splitting a mono signal and effecting each channel differently, effecting the sides, moving pan, ping pong delay and so on. It's not a question of what is best, it's a question of what sounds best in the mix at that point in time. +1 
If you need specifics on 'How To" just ask. (maybe he explains them in the thread?) ---- "For many individuals with mental illness, creativity is a valued and central part of their identity." |
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| ^ | Joined: 28 Mar 2003 Member: #6523 Location: Location: Location | ||
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lfm wrote: To get things wider - never had that problem.
Rather the other way, having plugs that generate stereo that takes up the full left-to-right +1 I am narrowing or monoing things at least twice as often as widening. There might be one element in a track that needs a big wide effect, maybe. But theres tons of stuff that ends up too wide for me by the time mixing is happening. Also, for me it is rare that something needs help to be wide. Its pretty often a mixing/panning issue, imo. I only reach for a "widening tool" when I want something like really unnaturally wide. (Then its usually that ToneBoosters thing lately...) And I dont have a lot to contribute really because since FL Studio introduced the 'more/mono' stereo knob on every mixer channel. Its about as simple as it could be. One side goes mono, and one side gives it extra width. Its not that often that I need anything more than that. (Although just yesterday I went to all the trouble of mono-ing only the sub freqs in giant bass patch. Hard days work.  )
Big, big +1 to the S1 though. Geez... Its one of those tools that can be abused I think. I say a tutorial vid with some 'known' producer and he described how his mixing process consists of putting an S1 on almost every channel and using it to mix paning and depth. That sounds like an extremely harsh shortcut to proper mixing, but I swear he had like ten instances of it opened up.... ----  |
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| ^ | Joined: 25 Jun 2004 Member: #30878 | ||
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great link! thanks. |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Member: #265816 Location: Seattle, WA | ||
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Xenobt's post in that linked thread is doubleplus good;
Xenobt wrote: Yes, the difference being that when you delay one side of a stereo instrument, it seemingly moves backward in the stereo field. With different panning widths you can get some subtle placements that have more front to back depth than conventional panning. Just watch out when you get under 8ms, or comb filtering can be a problem in mono for anything both tracks share identically.
Adding a few db of upper mid parametric eq to the delayed side pops it forward again when parts hit notes the eq favors, which gives nice side to side animation when you pan it wide. The longer the delay, the further "forward" the undelayed side comes. I wouldn't use it on whole mixes though. It would look fine on a scope and meters, but you'd perceive it as quieter on one side. And always check any mid-side processing in mono too, some weird phasing can happen at extreme settings. If I haven't made my point, check all your widening in mono! 
One last trick is to set up a tight ambient reverb (half sec. or so) with true stereo input/output on a stereo aux send/return and pan the instrument to one side, and send it at unity gain to only the opposite side of the verb. It works great to carve out space for rhythmic parts, and no phase trouble! Using both, you can make things deep and wide, in subtle or extreme ways. Just remember to arrange so you can hear all this foo! 
KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt ---- |
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| ^ | Joined: 25 Jun 2004 Member: #30878 | ||
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for sure! great explanation. |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Member: #265816 Location: Seattle, WA |
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