CSR vs. Valhalla Room?

[mandolarian]

Man, there are .. (yet another self righteous rant)

I can't speak for any one else on this thread but I get the feeling that it should be rechristened 'the antithesist endlessly moaning about all manner of petty grievances thread'.

Sure, you can. Just skip the qualifying statements and jump right into the sweeping generalizations. Oh, wait, you sorta stuck one in there. 2 points.

I've bought several IK products over the years for which I've paid good money so I'm a paying customer and no fanboy. I've found their products to range from good to excellent (and CSR I find excellent.) Yes, I do find the endless marketing I see all over the net to be tiresome but IK are no worse than many companies for this and much better than some. I also think that, on this thread, their representatives have handled themselves with considerable restraint and diplomacy in the face of what appears to be your personal crusade to expose their terrible crimes against humanity oh come on get over yourself. You are increasingly reminding me of that 7 year old in the playground that the teacher scolds to stop telling the same tale over and over again.

I disagree. I found most of antithesist's post in this thread 'fair and balanced' and preferable to the marketing drek that IK feels compelled to insert at their corporate leisure. I own a great number of IK products - which I purchased and enjoy, in spite of, rather than because of their 'viral marketeers'.

The crimes against humanity charge against antithesist is exactly the sort of exaggeration that put antithesist on trial in the high court of your mind. He only raised the points, perhaps too often and early, that IK made 'marketing claims' that were more hyperbole than technical accuracy. If we can't discuss these sorts of crimes against auditory integrity here at KVR, then we're reduced to the feline meme vocabulary. Which is ok with me.

[FrankT]

I've found their products to range from good to excellent (and CSR I find excellent.).

Few products I find very good (Amplitube), but by today's standards I think most of their products are mediocre. I am not saying you dont get good VFM, but you will find better alternative products for almost everything they offer. But again: that's fair enough as their pricing is very competitive. What I find a pitty though is that rather than innovating their classic product line they seem to be focused on repackaging the same old stuff again and again. I mean, from a business point of view isn't it fascinating how long they are able to milk the CSR and SampleTank stuff? I am sure one morning I will find the ST Kellogg's edition in my cornflakes. And my kids will get CSR-to-go in Kinder Egg / Kinder Sorpresa !

[trimph1]

Well, since this topic is about the hype let us ask what we would like to see in any advertising from IK..since they seem to be the ONLY one's that are quite regularly accused of this.

Taking a few examples of what I've seen so far I would suggest...

Try our mediocre product!!

It might surprise you that it will sound just like every other VST out there...or maybe not. We've tried it on a few systems here but you will be, more than less, our beta testers.

180 day DEMO!!!

If you find it not to your liking we'll pay you to keep it!!!

Would this approach be sufficient?

[ObiWonder]

I've found their products to range from good to excellent (and CSR I find excellent.).

Few products I find very good (Amplitube), but by today's standards I think most of their products are mediocre. I am not saying you dont get good VFM, but you will find better alternative products for almost everything they offer. But again: that's fair enough as their pricing is very competitive. What I find a pitty though is that rather than innovating their classic product line they seem to be focused on repackaging the same old stuff again and again. I mean, from a business point of view isn't it fascinating how long they are able to milk the CSR and SampleTank stuff? I am sure one morning I will find the ST Kellogg's edition in my cornflakes. And my kids will get CSR-to-go in Kinder Egg / Kinder Sorpresa !

There are a of of people that would disagree with you on our whole product range, especially compared to the competition. Every has their own opinions though and I can respect that.

It may seem like all we do is iOS stuff or rebranding our older products.
Our products have a long life span, the sounds themselves are classic timeless sounds ready to be molded to your liking AND we are currently in development for the products you mentioned. Development for our audio plug ins take more time and attention so they naturally take longer. ESPECIALLY considering the new library and new features I can't even talk about yet.

We have some surprises for you guys this year, I would say more but it seems like the more I post about it the more it gets twisted. All I'm trying to say is we have stuff in the works.

[LAGinz]

Why not just tell us something about what's coming, rather than this Christmas tree type of marketing, which obviously is antagonizing your user base?

[trimph1]

Why not just tell us something about what's coming, rather than this Christmas tree type of marketing, which obviously is antagonizing your user base?

Why should he?

It does seem that everytime they are up front..they get blasted.
It seems that everytime they are hinting, they get blasted.


No matter what they say, someone is going to say they deceive...et cetera...

There are going to be doubters and those who think that it is all lies et cetera but that should not be surprising...and considering that a few devs did say exactly what they were doing brought forth a whole pile of speculation and such...

[LAGinz]

I don't agree with you there, trimph1, at all. While there are some on this thread who will blast away no matter what they say, I am not one of them. I own and like a number of IK products--but am frustrated by the long delays (in particular going 64 bit) and the lack of meaningful information they give to customers on their plans. (Unlike some others, I don't really care what they model their plugins on, so long as I like the sounds)

[dickiefunk]

I'm going to buy one of these and am pretty torn as to which one to go for at the moment.

I already have Reverence and Reverberate IR reverbs with Redline Reverb and Epicverb as my main workhorse reverbs but really like the sound of both Valhalla Room and CSR. I've been trying out the demos a fair amount and I think VR sounds more natural and realistic but am wondering if CSR would sit better in a mix.
I definitely can't afford both despite them being ridiculously cheap as I need to buy Sample Modeling Big Band for some arranging work coming up.

Hmm decisions!!

Any more thoughts?

[mandolarian]

I'm going to buy one of these and am pretty torn as to which one to go for at the moment.

I already have Reverence and Reverberate IR reverbs with Redline Reverb and Epicverb as my main workhorse reverbs but really like the sound of both Valhalla Room and CSR. I've been trying out the demos a fair amount and I think VR sounds more natural and realistic but am wondering if CSR would sit better in a mix.
I definitely can't afford both despite them being ridiculously cheap as I need to buy Sample Modeling Big Band for some arranging work coming up.

Hmm decisions!!

Any more thoughts?

Only dickiefunk knows for sure. If you're using either verb on sends with EQ, you can make either sit in the mix just fine. So, we return to the natural and realistic question, which dickiefunk already answered for you.

[FrankT]

I've found their products to range from good to excellent (and CSR I find excellent.).

Few products I find very good (Amplitube), but by today's standards I think most of their products are mediocre. I am not saying you dont get good VFM, but you will find better alternative products for almost everything they offer. But again: that's fair enough as their pricing is very competitive. What I find a pitty though is that rather than innovating their classic product line they seem to be focused on repackaging the same old stuff again and again. I mean, from a business point of view isn't it fascinating how long they are able to milk the CSR and SampleTank stuff? I am sure one morning I will find the ST Kellogg's edition in my cornflakes. And my kids will get CSR-to-go in Kinder Egg / Kinder Sorpresa !

There are a of of people that would disagree with you on our whole product range, especially compared to the competition. Every has their own opinions though and I can respect that.

It may seem like all we do is iOS stuff or rebranding our older products.
Our products have a long life span, the sounds themselves are classic timeless sounds ready to be molded to your liking AND we are currently in development for the products you mentioned. Development for out audio plug ins take more time and attention so they naturally take longer. ESPECIALLY considering the new library and new features I can't even talk about yet.

We have some surprises for you guys this year, I would say more but it seems like the more I post about it the more it gets twisted. All I'm trying to say is we have stuff in the works.

Look, ObiK, I am open for new stuff and I appreciate you getting back. I also once again say that Amplitube and T-Racks is really cool stuff. But I am afraid vague announcements and general statements about the rest of the portfolio aren't helping building confidence. Take SampleTank: from a product development point of view as well as regarding library releases very little has happened for years. I mean even Miroslav's latest strings library has been released for sample player Engine 2 (Yellow Tools)?! Any enhancements/developments of CSR? Nothing for years! Many IK products used to be cutting edge - at the time! Saying that these products are still leading the industry is...hm...very courageous Marketing! Seriously, If I was to install a new DAW today I would not bother re-installing half of my IK products (e.g SampleTank, Sonic Synth, Miroslav Philharmonic, CSR). Think about that! I would be happy to be proven wrong - with tangible evidence of broad 64bit platform support, enhancements of the existing product range and a clear vision for new DAW-related products!

Back on topic. I would choose ValhallaRoom for $50.

[trimph1]

I actually would like to see something along the lines of, say...

Well, we are going to go to X64 in the summer. We are going to build in support for Android phones over the coming year. SampleTank is getting a complete do over that will encompass all new sample sets as well. Blah blah blah...

But then again...we will need specifics wouldn't we?

[@midnight]

It does seem that everytime they are up front..they get blasted.
It seems that everytime they are hinting, they get blasted.


No matter what they say, someone is going to say they deceive...et cetera...

Yeah, at this point, it's probably too late for them. Most people just get annoyed by seeing them on here, period.

[Sampleconstruct]

I mean receiving several IK Newslatters a week, sometimes 2 within 15 minutes is hardcore marketing, so I find it too much to read the same advertizing blurb on KVR in all threads where IK seems to have an interest in or seeks for new potential customers. I have just unsubscribed from their Newsletter, I've had enough.

[trimph1]

Yeah. Although I do kind of understand the marketing aspect. You really do not want to tip your hat to far.

The only problem with this approach is that they may have painted themselves into a corner. I like CSR, a lot. It still works for what I need it for but it would be nice to see something done with it.

[trimph1]

I mean receiving several IK Newslatters a week, sometimes 2 within 15 minutes is hardcore marketing, so I find it too much to read the same advertizing blurb on KVR in all threads where IK seems to have an interest in or seeks for new potential customers. I have just unsubscribed from their Newsletter, I've had enough.

Funny thing is is that here, I get only one every couple of weeks, so when I see people like you getting them all over I am going...eh? What gives?