So as the title says im pretty much stuck with this part of music theory.
I'll try to make it short.
Im all ready familiar with how to form Major and Minor chords and what is the I chord II chord III chord IV.. and so on...
im not asking to go too much deep into music theory behind chord progressions, im only trying to understand :
- How do i know what chords will i play after my first chord i played
- Whats the connection between them two chords and why.
Thanks.
Basic understanding of chord progressions (need help)
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- KVRist
- 195 posts since 11 Dec, 2006
Play whatever sounds good to you. If you need to know "why" you need to study voice leading.veeross wrote: - How do i know what chords will i play after my first chord i played
- Whats the connection between them two chords and why.
Thanks.
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
I'm sure someone will be along momentarily with an excellent technical answer, but I'll just share a few thoughts tapped on my phone...
Western music is all about moving from I to V and back to I. That is the basis of the musical sentence in its most simplified form. I would also propose that its about moving from I to V and then avoiding the move back to I for as long as possible. At a certain level, this is an art form and not a science, so you should just start banging away at some chords and see what works. Naturally, your music will get much more complex if you don't limit it to a single key. Or dispense with the notion of chords altogether and think about the individual melodic voice lines instead. If you want a tool to help develop interesting chord progressions, I've found Chordbot for iOS and Android to be a useful, educational scratch pad for working out ideas.
Western music is all about moving from I to V and back to I. That is the basis of the musical sentence in its most simplified form. I would also propose that its about moving from I to V and then avoiding the move back to I for as long as possible. At a certain level, this is an art form and not a science, so you should just start banging away at some chords and see what works. Naturally, your music will get much more complex if you don't limit it to a single key. Or dispense with the notion of chords altogether and think about the individual melodic voice lines instead. If you want a tool to help develop interesting chord progressions, I've found Chordbot for iOS and Android to be a useful, educational scratch pad for working out ideas.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
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- KVRian
- 1256 posts since 15 Mar, 2007 from Yorkshire, England
the chordmaps site has some interesting diagrams showing progressions, see this for example:
http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/mapC.htm
http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/mapC.htm
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- KVRAF
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
[quote="veeross"]
- How do i know what chords will i play after my first chord i played
- Whats the connection between them two chords and why.
[quote]
That's exactly what I learned from this bundle (The Essential Secrets of Songwriting):
http://garyewer.wordpress.com/
It explains why some chord progressions work better than others (strong vs weak chord progressions), there are lots of examples and it gives you charts to write your own chord progressions. One of the pdf's teaches about harmonizing melodies. Good read and to the point.
Best purchase I ever did.
- How do i know what chords will i play after my first chord i played
- Whats the connection between them two chords and why.
[quote]
That's exactly what I learned from this bundle (The Essential Secrets of Songwriting):
http://garyewer.wordpress.com/
It explains why some chord progressions work better than others (strong vs weak chord progressions), there are lots of examples and it gives you charts to write your own chord progressions. One of the pdf's teaches about harmonizing melodies. Good read and to the point.
Best purchase I ever did.
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- KVRAF
- 2610 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
Just play some songs by people whose music you like. The Beatles are always good in this respect. Studying other people's work will help you get a feel how things sound in context and what might work.
You should be able to hear what comes next (in your head) when you're composing, the important thing is to be able to know what it is you're hearing and that takes a bit of practice. Learning from other composers will make this process much quicker and easier.
You should be able to hear what comes next (in your head) when you're composing, the important thing is to be able to know what it is you're hearing and that takes a bit of practice. Learning from other composers will make this process much quicker and easier.
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2myYesRBRgQB3LkZzEYdt5 | https://soundcloud.com/steevm/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/2myYesRBRgQB3LkZzEYdt5 | https://soundcloud.com/steevm/
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 2 posts since 10 May, 2012
Yes ive all ways tried to do that I to V and all ways came up with some really nice progressions, but i didn't understand why i did that.. and if that's even correct.deastman wrote:I'm sure someone will be along momentarily with an excellent technical answer, but I'll just share a few thoughts tapped on my phone...
Western music is all about moving from I to V and back to I. That is the basis of the musical sentence in its most simplified form. I would also propose that its about moving from I to V and then avoiding the move back to I for as long as possible. At a certain level, this is an art form and not a science, so you should just start banging away at some chords and see what works. Naturally, your music will get much more complex if you don't limit it to a single key. Or dispense with the notion of chords altogether and think about the individual melodic voice lines instead. If you want a tool to help develop interesting chord progressions, I've found Chordbot for iOS and Android to be a useful, educational scratch pad for working out ideas.
but now im kinda starting to understand this... there are no specific rules
only art that follows what sounds good.
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- KVRAF
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
It's much better I think to learn from emulating what you think works, and as you go your taste may evolve.
Reading about it is a cart that won't so much pull the horse of enjoying your own experience. People don't suss 'chord progressions' overnight unless they were born to it, and/or have a lot of opportunity to absorb by osmosis how things work. In which case you wouldn't be here with this post.
To the OP I would [1. approach the internet with great skepticism] and find what works for you, pick things up by ear, by your own hands, once you've played some songs and get a bit of experience, detecting patterns and common practices you would like to emulate and eventually come to emulate that... and find out where your exceptions might occur. Get the sheet music that lists the chords for a song you like and play that song. Find out where the sheet music didn't quite get it right... Don't be in a hurry to 'produce', you have no business until you have some experiences with music on the for-real side.
Reading about it is a cart that won't so much pull the horse of enjoying your own experience. People don't suss 'chord progressions' overnight unless they were born to it, and/or have a lot of opportunity to absorb by osmosis how things work. In which case you wouldn't be here with this post.
sez you. unnecesarily reductive... 'the musical sentence' is absurd. The latter assertion about equally so. What musical *reason* is there, in which 'musical sentence', to go to, or to belay the return to 'V'? With no reason it's just arbitrary. This kind of thing really highlights the problem of writing sentences about the workings of music instead of showing something.Western music is all about moving from I to V and back to I. That is the basis of the musical sentence in its most simplified form. I would also propose that its about moving from I to V and then avoiding the move back to I for as long as possible.
To the OP I would [1. approach the internet with great skepticism] and find what works for you, pick things up by ear, by your own hands, once you've played some songs and get a bit of experience, detecting patterns and common practices you would like to emulate and eventually come to emulate that... and find out where your exceptions might occur. Get the sheet music that lists the chords for a song you like and play that song. Find out where the sheet music didn't quite get it right... Don't be in a hurry to 'produce', you have no business until you have some experiences with music on the for-real side.
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
@jancivil Well of course, you're one of those "more knowledgeable people" I had in mind who would hopefully be along to offer some proper advice. My advice, such as it is, comes from having spent 10 years of my childhood studying classical piano technique and theory, and at the end of it finding myself asking "But how do I actually WRITE a song?"
The "musical paragraph" might have been a better term than "sentence". In the most general, pop music sense, a coherent musical statement usually starts on I and ends back on I. Note the qualifier "usually". To run with the writing analogy, my "proposal" about avoiding the return to I was basically suggesting that the opening sentence starts on I and moves up towards IV or V. The next couple of sentences meander around, and the final sentence of the paragraph resolves back to I. Yes, I'm fully aware that I'm basically talking out of my ass here, and only describing the most elementary of progressions.
I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't compose with intent, merely suggesting some ways to get started.
I also concur with the suggestion to analyze some existing songs, especially those by The Beatles.
The "musical paragraph" might have been a better term than "sentence". In the most general, pop music sense, a coherent musical statement usually starts on I and ends back on I. Note the qualifier "usually". To run with the writing analogy, my "proposal" about avoiding the return to I was basically suggesting that the opening sentence starts on I and moves up towards IV or V. The next couple of sentences meander around, and the final sentence of the paragraph resolves back to I. Yes, I'm fully aware that I'm basically talking out of my ass here, and only describing the most elementary of progressions.
I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't compose with intent, merely suggesting some ways to get started.I also concur with the suggestion to analyze some existing songs, especially those by The Beatles.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
well, I wouldn't want a beginner to go about with any ideas, eg., go to V, like that has any meaning of its own.
I went to think of songs where I know what chords there are in it... do they go to V, and if so when.
I can show a lot of songs that just don't, and that don't even go to IV. And the ways popular songs I like went to V aren't so much modeled after classical music [function]. (And to me that drive to V and back to I is something that I find wanting aesthetically. Susan McClary wrote a thesis on this in fact...) but anyway.
The thing that's almost always missing in these wordfests about chords is that, for the most part chords exist in a composition to do something for a melody.
The first song I remember writing that used chords, I didn't know anything about teh rules, I knew some chords from following sheet music for songs I wanted to get to know, and I'd picked leads off by ear a little. I didn't have any way to force things into a convention outside of my own inchoate ideas of, well this went to this over here and I like that. It's not as random as it might sound. And I was writing something to decorate a tune I was singing from a poem someone had made.
I think depending on a principle in the abstract as if it's like a recipe isn't as much fun, myself. If you know you're baking a cake you start with a recipe by Betty Crocker, but who is so sure they're baking a cake exactly, in music? I don't and I prefer not to.
I went to think of songs where I know what chords there are in it... do they go to V, and if so when.
I can show a lot of songs that just don't, and that don't even go to IV. And the ways popular songs I like went to V aren't so much modeled after classical music [function]. (And to me that drive to V and back to I is something that I find wanting aesthetically. Susan McClary wrote a thesis on this in fact...) but anyway.
The thing that's almost always missing in these wordfests about chords is that, for the most part chords exist in a composition to do something for a melody.
The first song I remember writing that used chords, I didn't know anything about teh rules, I knew some chords from following sheet music for songs I wanted to get to know, and I'd picked leads off by ear a little. I didn't have any way to force things into a convention outside of my own inchoate ideas of, well this went to this over here and I like that. It's not as random as it might sound. And I was writing something to decorate a tune I was singing from a poem someone had made.
I think depending on a principle in the abstract as if it's like a recipe isn't as much fun, myself. If you know you're baking a cake you start with a recipe by Betty Crocker, but who is so sure they're baking a cake exactly, in music? I don't and I prefer not to.
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- KVRer
- 29 posts since 7 May, 2012 from Newcastle, Australia
Composing a chord progression is definitely a black art, especially if you want to make a strong and original one.
But you can get a lot of guidance if you have an awareness of the scale, or key centre of the song at the point where you are working, and then focus on the related chords of that scale. There is discussion on this here:
http://www.howmusicworks.org/904/Writin ... ted-Chords
You can work out the key centre by looking at the notes you are using in your melody
http://www.howmusicworks.org/902/Writin ... ith-Melody
The above links show the method in details, but it's a lot easier if you have an interactive tool like Songtrix. See here for a video demo of how to go about it
http://www.songtrix.com
But you can get a lot of guidance if you have an awareness of the scale, or key centre of the song at the point where you are working, and then focus on the related chords of that scale. There is discussion on this here:
http://www.howmusicworks.org/904/Writin ... ted-Chords
You can work out the key centre by looking at the notes you are using in your melody
http://www.howmusicworks.org/902/Writin ... ith-Melody
The above links show the method in details, but it's a lot easier if you have an interactive tool like Songtrix. See here for a video demo of how to go about it
http://www.songtrix.com