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@midnight wrote: I don't think it limits creativity at all to stick to a few good amps (or amp sims)... there's no creativity in using a different amp on every song.
Perhaps you should ask Mr. John Frusciante that about that, or Joe Bonamassa. 
Joe Bonamassa 
I suppose you want me to bring John Mayer into the equation too? 
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| ^ | Joined: 22 Mar 2005 Member: #62534 Location: Detroit | ||
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Did you ever see "it might get loud?" I mean, Edge had his whole rig brought in for that.......er...........ok. |
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| ^ | Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Member: #91716 | ||
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I've looked at those Two Rocks...pretty expensive stuff
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/two-rock-amps.html on the top of the Marshall (white) is that a Ceriatone? 
Eric turned me onto these kits, buy them without the trannies and the choke to save the shipping and it's not a bad deal or a tough build...they have plenty of other kits too http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/BSJCM800_2203/BSJCM 800_2003Kits.htm ---- I never learned anything from being right Hink 2012 RIP Reason L. and Ian B |
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| ^ | Joined: 05 Sep 2003 Member: #8838 Location: New England U.S.A. | ||
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hibidy wrote: Did you ever see "it might get loud?" I mean, Edge had his whole rig brought in for that.......er...........ok.
I have been meaning to, every time it has been on that Palladium comcast channel, hockey was on, and hockey usually wins out, as that is the only thing I usually turn on the tv for. |
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| ^ | Joined: 22 Mar 2005 Member: #62534 Location: Detroit | ||
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@midnight wrote: Dean Aka Nekro wrote: Choices, Choices, Choices but I'm mostly just doing recording nowadays so that probably comes into it as studio buys aswell as pleasing myself.
Why do you need so many choices? On most great records there are only a handful of different basic guitar tones, perhaps with different reverb or delay, or some modulation in certain sections. But if you change the basic guitar sound on every song, you end up with a messy, amateurish sounding record. That's just my two cents. So many choices because along with recording my own material, projects and collaberations. I also record other bands/peoples own material, projects and collaberations. So having what is not really my sort of thing available is obviously a good thing as it will no doubt be another person's idea of/what they want to use. Also because I like to please myself and I do An example, I have a Fender HotRod Deluxe III 1x12" combo, Now I wouldn't use the overdrive/higher gain channel if someone paid me to do so but the clean channel is great for clean stuff unlike alot of the other amplifiers I have which excel at high-gain sounds. So it serves alot more than one purpose I do usually stick with one core sound for an album/EP, However it won't just be made up/consist of one pedal, one amplifier, one cabinet and one guitar and certainly not one mic I may not use each and every track when it comes to mixdown but at least they are there should I need them and it opens up loads of possiblities. Before working ITB that was the sort of thing I used to dream of and now I can haz cheezeburger  options; keep them open, Why not? My collegue does so and of course when working together we do, John/Hink does so along with many other people/friends i know and I enjoy thier work usually. So with say the Kemper and a Torpedo, I would probably run one normal 'real' setup, one from the Kemper and use the send/pre-amp out on the normal 'real' setup into the Torpedo, The normal 'real' cab will have 3 or more microphones on it, the captured profiles would have more than one mic on them and same with the Torpedo. Honestly its not done out of excess but rather as said for options at mixdown. I am not a 'stick a '57 on it and that will do' sort of engineer  as that is not good enough unless it was a live setup. Even if I ended up just using the 57 in the mix is not the point 
I can post examples if you like of some of the stuff I have done with abit of track one and abit of the last track so you be the judge if I deviated and consistency in the sound was lost? I doubt you will like my own stuff though because I reckon your idea of a great record and my idea of a great record will be vastly different. Still the offer is there @midnight Dean ---- Shit For Blood, Piss For Brains |
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| ^ | Joined: 04 Oct 2007 Member: #162100 Location: When The Moment's Gone | ||
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Hink wrote: @midnight wrote: Dean Aka Nekro wrote: Choices, Choices, Choices but I'm mostly just doing recording nowadays so that probably comes into it as studio buys aswell as pleasing myself.
Why do you need so many choices? On most great records there are only a handful of different basic guitar tones, perhaps with different reverb or delay, or some modulation in certain sections. But if you change the basic guitar sound on every song, you end up with a messy, amateurish sounding record. That's just my two cents. I can't speak for Dean but I'm about choices as well and there are several reasons, one to fit the mix. Even subtle differences can make a difference and some of those differences can only come from the amps (my article for koolkeys that I'm still working on is about re-amping and doing just this). Another reason for me is because I do not give a hoot about any "great" records as that is misleading, I care about new directions to explore and have fun with. I dont have to record it to go on an adventure outside of a handful of tones (you're not the only one to say this to me and I'll never get the concept of limiting growth and creativity this way). When I go off on just such adventures (not always tone based, style, genre, alternate tunings etc also take me to places I have never been before), I learn so much more and that is what success is to me. I use a lot of different tunings and to assume a handful of tones will be enough for the different tunings would be self defeating. Just the difference between Gm (DGDGBbD) and Dm (DADFAD) makes a big difference when you change up the tones. Gm can bring out feelings of discontent, be a bit angry sounding while Dm has more of an emotional tug to it. Changing the tone to reflect this enhances the effect of using key changes to bring out emotions. I have a few different guitars including my baritone* that all have unique mods or set ups and once again often different guitars work better with subtle changes afforded me by those choices. IMHO leaving the record out of it, to not stimulate growth is amateurish and counterproductive...then there is the fact that much of my life I have been a 1 guitar, 1 amp guy and I love my freedom. How much time have you spent with a true class A single ended amp? I dont want everything in Class A, AB push/pull or class B because each one brings on their own elements. So why would I settle with one amp with one power tube(s) option...that becomes static and dull imo. You may only hear a few tones, but my tone is ever evolving and when that stops I reckon I will too.
*by the end of the weekend the p-rails will be in my baritone which is a tele custom with a Warmoth baritone neck. With the p-rails it will give me 4 tone choices for the pups, humbucker parallel, humbucker series, single coil (rail) and p-90. Also the baritone is wired for one or two outputs, both pups can be routed to one output together or each have their own output. It has two artec QDD2 pre-amps in it which is a 5 way rotary switch with bypass, boost, blues boost, distortion and hi-gain. When in mono mode it uses one pre-amp but in stereo each pup also has it's own pre-amp. Surely with a beast like that even more amps and tone choices only makes sense Pretty much what I mean/would say (maybe you just know me too well  ) but yeah. Also the multiple microphone thing and seperate rigs get summed together to create one sound. @midnight its not much different than using say 2 or 3 instances of GuitaRig with two full rigs in each and the control room thing setup differently for each. The relative positioning of the microphones does almost all the EQ'ing at source for me via taking advantage of the phase relationships between each microphone. Sometimes for the really down-tuned high-gain stuff I will use an ampeg bass amp head along with a 2x12" and a 1x15" hit with a Line 6 ubermetal pedal for all the qualities a good solid state amp has along with a regular guitar amp head and 4x12" hit with a tubescreamer and STFU via a Boss NS-2. Blend the lot to taste and I can get the really instant low-end and really focused higher-mid range of the ampeg rig along with the more alive lower-mids and smoother higher frequencies of the regular setup (not that the bass rig sounds harsh as I dont have a tweeter or horn on any of the 1x15" cabs. Mixed together as said I usually get pretty much what I want/need at source. When my new audio machine is ready (a few weeks now) I plan to demo alot of stuff I just simply can not run on this laptop I'm scapping by on including alot of amp sims, So who knows I might find one or two which suit me really well or rather fit into the current setup. I am excited to have a machine which can handle anything I can throw at it. John, Looking forwards to the article you're doing for Brent and incase you want to send me a copy before you send it off I'd be happy to have a read of it  As sadly this sort of area is not covered enough, Be it purely ITB multiple amp setups, out of the box amps setups and obviously using a combination of both. Glad to hear there will be some point of reference for those whom might have a read and then feel inspired to try it for themselves. Good on both Brent and You for doing an article 
Nice one and best to all as always
Dean ---- Shit For Blood, Piss For Brains |
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| ^ | Joined: 04 Oct 2007 Member: #162100 Location: When The Moment's Gone | ||
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AndrewSimon wrote: You can also try Mercurrial..... very roomy
EXPERIMENTAL, you must have patience to set it up! http://mercuriall.iks.ru/cms/ It sounds something like this: S-Gear into Mercuriall cab: www.andras-shimon.com/S-Gear/S-Gear_Mercurrial.mp3 That is a wonderful tone! It sounds absolutely alive and dynamic 
Could you provide the entire chain from guitar to output and give some idea about settings for what was used? Does it include the "Rock Block" in front? Very well done Andrew ---- That GUI version is beautiful if you're on fantastic drugs ~ djshire |
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| ^ | Joined: 28 May 2008 Member: #181645 Location: Saint Paul, MN | ||
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blueman wrote: AndrewSimon wrote: You can also try Mercurrial..... very roomy
EXPERIMENTAL, you must have patience to set it up! http://mercuriall.iks.ru/cms/ It sounds something like this: S-Gear into Mercuriall cab: www.andras-shimon.com/S-Gear/S-Gear_Mercurrial.mp3 That is a wonderful tone! It sounds absolutely alive and dynamic
Could you provide the entire chain from guitar to output and give some idea about settings for what was used? Does it include the "Rock Block" in front? Very well done Andrew Thanks I didn't save the project.... but it goes something like this: Rock Block (and what kind of tubes you use mater a lot) S-Gear (Steeler no Push, no Boost, all the fat distortion comes from the Rock Block) Mercuriall (None, SM57, Edge, Power-90%,Dynamics-70%,In-95%,Out-10%) Classic Delay (there is a faint Tape Delay panned all the way on the Left side) UAD Plate Reverb (super short) Probably a Brick limiter (MPL-1) pushing +3dB to bring it all together Here is the Backing track: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=918 257&songID=11344907 |
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| ^ | Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Member: #19126 Location: Phoenix AZ USA | ||
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That tone is just as unrealistic as all of the other Sims. No bite, lots of scratchy low-mid dirt. Lot of clicking, but no real "depth".
It might have ho harsh and hissing highs, but then, it sounds like it's behind a wall or in the next room, somewhat clouded up, probably quite a generous High-Cut involved there. This is real, and it sounds so much better. Off a live record even. Might take a couple of minutes to get it really started, but then, your time's not wasted listening to it, either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq7z-ibW_0g Or compare it to this one, the solo's at around 2:50 minutes. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNayySwr7SQ I know there's a loud mix around it, but if you listen carefully you can focus on the guitar tone, and it's just so much more alive and dynamic... and notice how there's this "clicking from picking" as well, but it's just not as bad as in your audio demo. No Amp/Cab Sim I ever encountered can recreate this sound and feeling, especially not if we're talking about high gain stuff, they all fail at that. And have you ever heard about feedback? ---- TINY METAL IMPACT - UPDATE Mar 1st '13 - available for Kontakt 4.2+ I guess one could call lead poisoning an ironic death. |
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| ^ | Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Member: #162654 Location: Berlin | ||
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My favourite guitar tone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1yiCyCvW4g By the way the only amp sim I could get some feedback from is the Studio Devil amp modeler. Even S-Gear ignores my approaches. |
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| ^ | Joined: 22 Dec 2010 Member: #246127 | ||
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chokehold wrote: That tone is just as unrealistic as all of the other Sims. No bite, lots of scratchy low-mid dirt. Lot of clicking, but no real "depth".
It might have ho harsh and hissing highs, but then, it sounds like it's behind a wall or in the next room, somewhat clouded up, probably quite a generous High-Cut involved there. This is real, and it sounds so much better. Off a live record even. Might take a couple of minutes to get it really started, but then, your time's not wasted listening to it, either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq7z-ibW_0g Or compare it to this one, the solo's at around 2:50 minutes. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNayySwr7SQ I know there's a loud mix around it, but if you listen carefully you can focus on the guitar tone, and it's just so much more alive and dynamic... and notice how there's this "clicking from picking" as well, but it's just not as bad as in your audio demo. No Amp/Cab Sim I ever encountered can recreate this sound and feeling, especially not if we're talking about high gain stuff, they all fail at that. And have you ever heard about feedback? I agree, real amps do sound better..... Not crazy about those tones, they are single coils to begin with. I'm more into tones like this: (real amp) http://www.scottlernermusic.com/Bludo/BludoOjaiODSample1.mp3 Unfortunately due to my living situation I can only play with headphones 
But yes, on rare occasions when I'm not, I can push S-Gear into feedback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSUY5TRCUg Now where is my Strat.... |
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| ^ | Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Member: #19126 Location: Phoenix AZ USA | ||
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Last edited by deleted on Sun May 13, 2012 7:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Robert Plant? ---- I thought you wanted to talk racy mosaics. |
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| ^ | Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Member: #76958 Location: Chicago | ||
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Godammit. I meant the other fella, Jimmy Paul Jones. |
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AndrewSimon wrote: I'm more into tones like this: (real amp) http://www.scottlernermusic.com/Bludo/BludoOjaiODSample1.mp3 This brought some memories
I "met" Scott online back when I had the pleasure of having two Baker B1 guitars. The interesting thing is that back then Gene Baker was selling his Roland VGA-7 amp. I almost bought it and we talked (via his forum and/or email) about modeling and how convenient it was. This was years ago and modeling has quickly evolved. It sounds better, dynamic response is being incorporated in some designs, and prices have dropped considerably. Unfortunately I had to sell my guitars, but this reminded me of how some great players were -and still are- combining the old and the new, and are completely open to trying new technologies. ---- esoundz name: Helio |
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| ^ | Joined: 28 Dec 2009 Member: #222492 |
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