If someone collaborates with you without consent?

[Shane Sanders]

What would you do if you caught someone using bits and pieces of your own ambient work, mostly pitch-shifted and overdubbed with other things, to create new works with no attribution at all?

[thecontrolcentre]

Ask for 50 percent and a credit, or call it a remix and use it for promotion.

[mellotronaut]

there was a guy here in the music café, who often participated in the contests. He did (does?) it all the time and got a lot of positive comments for 'his' music and his mixing skills from some of the 'regulars'. he picked all kinds of stuff from the net, especially melodical vocal lines and put 'his' songs together without mentioning the sources of the files, he used. one day D.H.Miltz found some of the original files, which had all a creative commons licenses, on the net. he linked it to the contest thread and asked the guy to name his sources properly now, but he didn't do it. instead he played the drama queen, felt deeply insulted and vanished for some months.

¡Qué chulo!

[timobrien]

By definition:

Collaboration
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Collaboration (disambiguation).
See also: Co-operation; coordination
Collaboration is working together to achieve a goal.[1] It is a recursive[2] process where two or more people or organizations work together to realize shared goals


If they are using your stuff without permission that's not collaboration, just stealing or copyright infringement.

[justin3am]

Someone I used to know made a CD that was basically him rapping over some of the first instrumental tracks I recorded. He didn't give me credit. He was signed to some independent record label based on the those tracks and he had the audacity to ask me if I would contribute the "beats" for his new album. I politely told him to f**k himself.

I didn't try to sue him or anything like that. As far as I'm concerned, the music that he claimed to have created is his now.

I put my music on the internet for anyone to freely download. People who download my music are free to do whatever they want with it. I just ask for credit. If you don't want to give me credit for my work, just don't tell me you're using it.

I don't have any suggestions to prevent people from stealing your work. Probably the best way to keep people from doing that kind of thing is to use a streaming service that doesn't allow downloads. Of course if someone really wants to steal you music, they will find a way. I think any method you use to deter theft, will also deter listeners.

[cryophonik]

First off, I wouldn't call that "collaborating".

Is he making money off it? If not, there's probably not much you can do, other than call him on it and publicly expose him as a fraud, report him to the mods, etc. Assuming that he's just some hack without enough originality to create anything on his own, is it really worth bothering with?

I've actually had one guy (a former KVR member who was banned for unrelated reasons) remix some of the songs that I had written years ago and using our vocals (with our permission) who posted them under his own name "featuring [singer]". When he was called on it, his excuse was that he redid my work (which isn't true anyway, since I wrote the chord progressions/melodies), so it was really his own work now and not a "remix" worthy of crediting the original writer.

It's annoying, but he's a guy who only does remixes AFAIK and I'm pretty sure that his audience only includes a handful of his FB friends, so I don't really let it get under my skin. Oh, and no more remix packs for him.

[ouroboros]

Yeah, it's the attribution that's the thing.
With lots of free ware, free music, I've no problem someone mashing it up, but they must say something about the source.

I would probably ask them first - "Hey that seems kind of familiar," then politely state your convictions about stopping. Calling them out publicly is probably your only recourse short of pulling your tunes and pursuing legal action.

[cryophonik]

...pursuing legal action.

Again, I would stress to make sure that it's worth your time and frustration before going this route. If the offender's only "profit" are some guys on KVR giving the typical "great tune, dude, but yer kick sux" comments, do you really want to go through the pain of legal action?

[ouroboros]

...pursuing legal action.

Again, I would stress to make sure that it's worth your time and frustration before going this route. If the offender's only "profit" are some guys on KVR giving the typical "great tune, dude, but yer kick sux" comments, do you really want to go through the pain of legal action?

well said!
- totally agree.

[Shane Sanders]

Thanks guys! There's no money to be recouped in this instance--just someone who probably decided to cut a few snippets of this and that together, innocently, and then got overly attached/proud of the results, thinking they'd transformed things enough to be undetectable. They did add a few things and they used a more loop oriented approach than I ever do, probably due to their need to isolate some more "bare" elements of my work for cleaner samples. My stuff is usually heavily layered and it would be hard to find areas to co-opt wholesale. Unfortunately for them, I've obsessively listened to my pieces during the creation process--and as many of you know, one becomes totally imprinted with little sonic gestures in an inescapable way after so many exposures to the same sounds and phrases(especially when mixing).

And I will need to do a bit of 'confirmation' work in an audio editor to make 100% sure, though I am close to certain. There's a bit of difficulty, there, because of the new layering choices in the derivative piece. It just bugged me a little as I take pride in my original sound design/field recording and spend an enormous amount of time creating the sonic palette (probably more than even for the composing part of the process). Weird feeling to hear someone owning my sounds as their own.

[Hink]

I'd be flattered and mad, I'm be open to allowing such things upon request (doubtful I would ever say no, even more doubtful that anyone would want my stuff). I would not be happy if someone claimed my guitar work as their own but on the other hand I know and they would know the truth. I'm simply not about anything else, I have no dreams of fame or riches (even token sums of cash).

OT a bit but as I age and because of facebook and the media I have gained a lot more pride in where I am at in my life and growth. I see bands that were my idols falling or just plain looking sad touring when they are over the hill (like me). I see friends on FB that I in my younger years I would not approach because they were doing so much 'better' than me only to find out they no different than myself. Some who had it all and messed up and some who many thought were losers doing amazing.

Bottom line, if someone feels the need to steal my stuff (which why would anyone to begin with) then obviously it means as much to them (if not more) as it does to me. Does that mean I wouldn't sue if someone hit it big with my work? No, but that doesn't mean I would seek action either...it all depends, if I did seek financial recovery it wouldn't be for me but for my family.

Funny thing about this stuff, those who made 'made it', those with money and fame are no different than me besides perhaps (in their minds) having more to lose. Taking someone else's work means you have lost one thing that has no value, your dignity. Meanwhile I still get the same kick playing I did 40 years ago...NO ONE CAN STEAL THAT

[chj]

Someone I used to know made a CD that was basically him rapping over some of the first instrumental tracks I recorded. He didn't give me credit. He was signed to some independent record label based on the those tracks and he had the audacity to ask me if I would contribute the "beats" for his new album. I politely told him to f**k himself.

Isn't a record deal part of both your goals? You provided the beats, he provided the rap. Apparently he made the right connections and got signed. Then he came back and asked if you'd like to work on his album. Isn't that what a producer of beats would WANT? Did he ask you to "contribute" your beats with no compensation? That would not be fair, but that's where negotiations would start.

[GaryG]

What would you do if you caught someone using bits and pieces of your own ambient work, mostly pitch-shifted and overdubbed with other things, to create new works with no attribution at all?

Surely no one would have the cheek?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oc ... fringement

Oh.

[Hink]

Someone I used to know made a CD that was basically him rapping over some of the first instrumental tracks I recorded. He didn't give me credit. He was signed to some independent record label based on the those tracks and he had the audacity to ask me if I would contribute the "beats" for his new album. I politely told him to f**k himself.

Isn't a record deal part of both your goals? You provided the beats, he provided the rap. Apparently he made the right connections and got signed. Then he came back and asked if you'd like to work on his album. Isn't that what a producer of beats would WANT? Did he ask you to "contribute" your beats with no compensation? That would not be fair, but that's where negotiations would start.

exactly why I'm a selfish bastard when it comes to my studio...'my' being the keyword. I have never used my studio to record tracks for anyone else and if I did the only exception would be my son or daughter.

[vurt]

name and shame or forget about it, did they do a good job? could it be seen as a remix amd used as promo for yoursself?
you could return the favour even.
could they have used similar techniques and come to similar results, is it just soundscapey synth bit which could just sound similar or is it a guitar melody that as you heard it your fingers twitched as if the muscles remembered it?
so many questions...