How to make my own sequence/pattern? (Maybe confusingly worded)

[Trevelyan]

Ok my third thread in less than a week on this board - im going to have to cut down

My question stems from my limited understanding in my first thread: Sequencers and arpeggiators. And yes I have googled - although maybe for the wrong thing!

Lets say I have a short pattern of notes, where some notes are higher or lower and some are longer and shorter. I want to send this to whichever instrument I want to play, but I then want to be able alter the "key" depending on my controller input. Essentially similar to some arpeggiators right? I play a note, it plays that note (either on hold or on press) and it will then play a little pattern around that note depending on what my input actually is.

I can't find any VST/i that does exactly what I want it to except, perhaps, DSK TechSynth Pro - which is perfect except that it sequences the internal sound it generates (as in, it doesnt send any midi data to my own instrument :[). So to be clear, what I am trying to do is:

- Create my own pattern (16/32 steps long) - sounds like a sequencer
- Have different notes - sounds like an arpeggiator?
- Have different note lengths - sounds like just making my own midi sequence manually?
- The pattern ive made would change depending on what key I press

eg:

Lets say I wanted to make a pattern with a long C, a gap, then a short D and a short E. Playing this on my keyboard by pressing C would just repeat this pattern over and over, but pressing C# would shift each of those up by 1 (C#, D#, F - I hope thats right ) and continue to play the pattern

Sorry in advance for my very naive/immature way of explaining this - I am still new to this and a lot of things I may have misinterpreted but any help or suggestions to how to achieve such a "thing" is appreciated!

[RunBeerRun]

I get it, you want an arpeggiator that can sequence any note, not just octaves. I've made a few (for Windows), Octave Jumper, Far Along, are 2 of them, click my sig to check out any others, they don't have duration of notes, sorry, I don't know how to do that, octave jumper is 2 8-bar sequencers and far along is also with the addition of a midi gate sequencer.

[lfm]

What I have seen similar to what you describe is keyboards with a builtin rhythm-box and backing track to that with a bassline and stuff.

Usually there are two modes:

#1. If you hold a complete chord - it will make backingtrack in that key.
#2. If you hold one key down that chord will play - and the backingtrack will do something in major over that chord.

If you hold one key and the next key, you will get a minor over the lowest key, and doing three keys you get a septima or minor7 etc.

So you left hand need only play one key for a major chord and backing track.

If this is what you want together with what you do in the computer there are two ways:

#1. Syncronize keyboard sequencer with computer - being master
#2. Syncronize keyboard sequencer with computer - being slave

I'm pretty sure there are plugins that do this too. But I have no suggestion for you this minute.

I think you can look at Midi plugins here and search more:
http://www.midiplugins.com/

They can manipulate midi in realtime in many ways. Dependent on your host you use VST Midi plugins(most) or Midi Fx(Cakewalk).

Have fun...

[Trevelyan]

RunBeerRun - not sure its the same thing im describing and my lord Octave Jumper's UI is er hard to understand

And lfm - that sounds complicated I had hoped it would be something that was very common to find - something that sends a user-generated pattern to a synth based on a note received by a midi controller as the input.

Honestly the easiest thing to describe what I want is to just check out that TechSynth Pro and just hit a note. Its a synth, but that sequencer is what I want!!! You hit a note, it plays the pattern: you hit another note and the same pattern plays, just based off a different key.

[MOK19]

Cubase comes with midi VST's that do something similar, if I'm reading right. I imagine other DAW's would too. In Cubase' case, it's called the Chorder. You hit one note, and it plays the interval pattern you've assigned.

Meanwhile, there are also vst's that play a simple one-note cadence when you hit a note.

Another route is a Synth that has such things built in. I use Z3TA+2, and it's got most of that, near as I can tell, minus the different-pattern-per-note. Though this can be gotten around by assigning a midi control to change the arp pattern. Similar thing, different button.

The sampler I use, FXpansion Geist, might fit the bill slightly better, even though it would require loading in some samples. It has different modes where one key can play a certain pattern, or a combination of patterns. You'll have to check the vids. Extremely good VST. It might be a good fit.

[Deist]

The feature you're describing is (let me rephrase it so you can check wether I got it right) the ability to /program/ a sequence of notes, of which the start will obviously always be set by what key you feel like playing on your keyboard, and the following notes in the sequence being played accordingly to any given base note by setting for each step how many semi-tone intervals (added or substracted) separates the new note from the base note played on the keyboard (not from the one played beforehand).

The only disadvantage of that feature musically is that it takes absolutely no harmony rule into account (unless there's another functionality complementing that to, for instance, force the out of key notes produced back into its nearest neighbour in the current scale) and thus almost certainly will deliver dissonant notes, being outside the scale dominating your piece at the time they're triggered...

Anyway, unless I'm seriously wrong here (and that has been known to happen, however scarcely ), that is textbook definition of the most mundane step-sequencer. Therefore any step-sequencer to the most basic one and any VSTi integrating a step-sequencer (on the top of my mind: all Rob Papen synths, most LinPlug synths, U-he's Zebra, Tone2's ElectraX, also countless less powerful synths like several Superwave ones for instance...) will deliver that precise functionality.

To use your own exemple: C, a gap, a short D and a short E. That would be entered in a classic step-sequencer like this: First step at value "0" (defining that the note played, in that case a 'C', must be incremented nor decremented by no semi-tones, thus left unchanged), second step a gap (irrelevant for this demonstration), 3rd step value at +2 (base note played augmented by 2 semi-tones -- one full added tone separates a 'C' from a 'D'), 4th step value at +4 (the note played on the keyboard being always the only basis for the sequencer, and a 'E' being two full tones (=4 semi-tones) more from a 'C').


I don't know however about a step-sequencer which would allow different step parameters depending on what key is played. That would be an interesting feature indeed, and another way to circumvent the drawback I mentioned above about out of tune notes being produced (although a bit less elegant one IMO, and sure as hell less convenient since not fully automatic. That would on the other hand allow for other interesting and useful uses in it's own right). I'd like to find a step-sequencer and/or arpeggiator implemeting that feature too, or else the possibility to modify the sequence programmed on the pattern _on the fly_ via automation.
I can tell for sure (since I remember trying to achieve just that before) that Papen's Blue at least (prolly many other famous softsynths) doesn't allow to automate/modify each step parameters of the sequence its Arp or Sequencer currently plays, which is a real pity seeing you can modify them alright by hand with the mouse while playing. I don't get why not really allow ALL parameters in a synth to be modifiable/MIDI CC learnable, leaving just a bunch aside for no apparent (and certainly NO legitimate) reason is just stupid, or banged out work out of laziness to be comprehensive, if you ask me.

If ever someone reading this has heard or know of any VST implementing such a feature, I'd be more than grateful they let me know about it, thanks!

[Loki Fuego]

Check out
7Aliens Catanya
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/catanya_by_7aliens

or

Timecore
available for free at the website, but you have to register
http://www.loopmasons.com/store/

Both allow you to program a sequence, which will be played using notes in the chord you input.

Also check out Kirnu by Arto Vaarala, which is more like regular arrpegiator with some advanced features (like pattern editing) and which allows you to enforce a certain scale
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/kirnu_by_arto_vaarala

[Trevelyan]

Thanks Fiest and Loki, both helped a lot

[Deist]

Check out
7Aliens Catanya
or
Timecore

Both allow you to program a sequence, which will be played using notes in the chord you input.

Mmmmh, right but Trevelyan was asking for the ability to play sequences of notes triggered by ONE KEY (and pitched accordingly), that is the basic working of a step-sequencer.
Patterns (preset or programmable by the user) using notes in a chord played is the definition of a phrase arpeggiator, so not what Trevelyan was asking I believe.

[deastman]

I haven't used it in a while, but I believe the energyXT arpeggiator is similar to what you want. Also check out Sugar Bytes Thesys, or if you're on a Mac, Numerology. Opcode Studiovision used to do exactly what you want, and more, but that belongs to the distant past.

[Frantz]

On a Windows PC, Rax'n'Trax is a free DAW that can do exactly what you are looking for. It emulates hardware step sequencers and is very powerful.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I use Live, So what I'd do is just map a transpose plug-in on the MIDI pattern then set the range, Trigger the sequence and twist. However it would be simple to setup a copy of the same sequence then on each one transpose it up and down each clip and trigger each 'scene'. If that is I have the slightest clue thats what you mean. Otherwise buy a mac and Numerology and have the most awesome MIDI fun I could have anywhere even inside Live or Logic as plug-in now also, Its awesome and wish they did a PC version but yeah I know it does not seem to be happening Suspose having Max4live I could route around for some device or patch that does something similar or get stuck in myself. I still don't think I understand the question though

[Loki Fuego]

For one-note excercise Sugar Bytes Thesys does the job. Actually it's quite cool, as it allows you to program pitch bends, fills, octave jumps, random events, chords and CC automation.

Dean, if you miss Numerology, try Temper: http://www.angryredplanet.com/temper/index.html

It's not really a step sequencer, rather a very evolved MIDI sequencer. It has VST version.
Unfortunately, it seems that the project was abandoned sometime ago.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Thanks for the tip on that one Loki Fuego, I shall definately check it out. Really appreciated dude

Best to Yourself and all as always

Dean