KVR Audio

usamablackbelt · Post by **usamablackbelt** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:14 am

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this in, but with it being a hardware-related thing (I think) then I figured I'd try. Well, I'm beginning to have a desire to build a studio with hardware and other external devices rather than just with my laptop. I notice I have much higher creative potential with physical things to touch and control to help the creative process. The only problem is I don't know where to begin. I live in an apartment complex, which makes buying studio monitors hard to justify (noise/bass traveling). So, since I have no idea where to even start, I'll list what I have now, and maybe you guys can give me some direction? I want to use the studio in general for electronic music production.

What I have:
A laptop
A MIDI keyboard (M-audio Oxygen series)
A Native Instruments Audio 8 DJ
A small stage microphone
DJ equipment (CDJ-1000 mk3 x2, DJM-800)
A pair of headphones

I figure the first step of things to get would be monitors, but I don't know if that's wise in an apartment complex unless I can completely dampen the bass/sound from traveling to neighbors. I figure I also need a mixing board of some sort, but again, I'm clueless.

Any help would be appreciated.

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:34 am

usamablackbelt wrote:I don't know if this is the right thread to post this in, but with it being a hardware-related thing (I think) then I figured I'd try. Well, I'm beginning to have a desire to build a studio with hardware and other external devices rather than just with my laptop. I notice I have much higher creative potential with physical things to touch and control to help the creative process. The only problem is I don't know where to begin. I live in an apartment complex, which makes buying studio monitors hard to justify (noise/bass traveling). So, since I have no idea where to even start, I'll list what I have now, and maybe you guys can give me some direction? I want to use the studio in general for electronic music production.

What I have:
A laptop
A MIDI keyboard (M-audio Oxygen series)
A Native Instruments Audio 8 DJ
A small stage microphone
DJ equipment (CDJ-1000 mk3 x2, DJM-800)
A pair of headphones

I figure the first step of things to get would be monitors, but I don't know if that's wise in an apartment complex unless I can completely dampen the bass/sound from traveling to neighbors. I figure I also need a mixing board of some sort, but again, I'm clueless.

Any help would be appreciated.

You can't "completely dampen the bass sound", so that's not worth thinking too much about.

I cannot imagine mixing without monitors. Headphones simply do not cut it for me. These days you can get decent monitors for a reasonable price. Get yourself a reasonably priced pair. You do not have to listen to them at full blast to derive value from them. I have lived in apartments and I've never mixed on cans unless it's a late night rough mix. I have "monitored", or "jammed" on cans, not the same thing.

What do you think that you need a mixer for? What are you going to mix? I've had a full blown home studio with analog tape, non-automated analog mixers, outboard effects and synths, midi routers, patchbays, etc etc. I'm now all in the box and I don't need any of that anymore. In fact, it's such a hassle to use that I don't bother with almost any of it.

I have:

A computer
Monitors
Interface
Microphones
Headphones
Control Surfaces/Keyboard/Drum Controllers
Software

That's it. I've still got stuff that goes unused. Depending on what type of music you do, some things might be helpful or nice to have. If you do rock/blues/acoustic music, having a small guitar amp can be handy. My better half has a digital piano, I like having that around.

Nanakai · Post by **Nanakai** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 am

I notice I have much higher creative potential with physical things to touch and control to help the creative process.

While monitors should be a priority, if you benefit from physicality, then I suggest looking into something like Maschine or Spark. A mixer would be a ridiculous waste of money, especially as it seems that you don't have an audio interface yet.

kpsychedelic · Post by **kpsychedelic** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:17 pm

Nanakai wrote: A mixer would be a ridiculous waste of money, especially as it seems that you don't have an audio interface yet.

I'm no audiophile, so I can't comment on expensive mixers or interfaces, but I'm pretty happy with my ZED-10FX.
It runs for about $250?
Audio interface and mixing board all-in-one.
Of course, I play guitar so for just a mic I wouldn't see myself buying one.
AND, I have this idea of using some synths and the audio out of the iPad (when it arrives) into some channels of the ZED.

usamablackbelt · Post by **usamablackbelt** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Hey guys.

Thanks for all the input so far. I was thinking a mixer, because isn't that what you would need if you wanted a ton of hardware synths, and wanted to mix them into audio into a DAW? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

I've never heard of Spark before, so I'll look into that, maybe? Thanks for all this input, guys! The goal would be to eventually have a small private studio with a lot of synths and such to play with.

Unaspected · Post by **Unaspected** » Wed May 23, 2012 7:24 pm

I'm currently using a small home project studio but have applied enough thought, experience and education to know what I want when I eventually build a recording studio.

Rather than a mixing desk, a nice rack of preamps with HP filters (maybe Focusrite ISA828s) is all one needs. Get those signals into the box as soon as possible! Less noise + less power consumption = better sonic quality + lower electricity bill. Unless we're talking about small project mixers - which I see even less point in.

This said I do love mix controllers and the Neve DFC is possibly my ideal console were funds truly magical. I would recommend some form of MIDI mix controller for your DAW as hands on control can speed up work.

I echo sentiments above so far as mixing on monitors being preferred to mixing in headphones. Certainly A/B with headphones but I tend to think of cans as a necessary evil whilst tracking.

As far as worrying about neighbours and such, I would avoid attempting to dampen the room for their benefit as you might be shooting yourself in the foot acoustically. Not that most apartments have good acoustics to start with but people do become accustomed to room reverb so it shouldn't impact on mixing too much. It has also been stated that just because you're rocking studio monitors that don't distort at high gain levels it doesn't mean you have to turn them all the way up!

Though everything sounds better louder.

usamablackbelt · Post by **usamablackbelt** » Thu May 24, 2012 6:25 pm

Hey guys,

The reason I always thought a mixing board was necessary was to route external audio into my computer. Is this not the case? How else would I route audio into my computer for multiple sources of external sound?

kpsychedelic · Post by **kpsychedelic** » Sat May 26, 2012 2:10 am

usamablackbelt wrote:Hey guys,

The reason I always thought a mixing board was necessary was to route external audio into my computer. Is this not the case? How else would I route audio into my computer for multiple sources of external sound?

Generally speaking you need an audio interface.
You could do with your basic sound card (unless of course you have something like a laptop where inputs are limited if existent at all), but it's the totally on the cheap and I-don't-care approach.

You need to ask yourself if you want to keep the mix on the digital realm, in which case you have a plethora of choices for audio interfaces ranging from what, $50 bucks and way up.
If you WANT to mix on the physical realm, then you can get a mixer with audio interface (like mine, mentioned above), or even a regular mixer but then you'd need an audio interface to connect it to for recording on the PC.

There are also multitrack recorders, that will "avoid" the use of a PC, at least while recording.

So as you can see, you can very well go off without a mixing board.

Now, the sky (*ahem* your wallet) is the limit!

Oh also there are more "techie" advanced options like bluetooth or WiFi, but then audio quality might vary as opposed to plugging it the audio out to an audio in of say, a quality interface. And these options are only for limited devices of course, and I don't see you have any of those.

MOK19 · Post by **MOK19** » Sat May 26, 2012 2:25 am

usamablackbelt · Post by **usamablackbelt** » Mon May 28, 2012 6:48 am

That was an incredible reply, kpsychadelic, thanks!

You're right, I want to keep the digital mixing realm. If, say, I want three to four audio inputs into my computer, what would you suggest as a mid-range quality audio interface?

Again, you guys have been EXTREMELY helpful, and have cleared up a LOT of questions! Thanks so much!

teig

kpsychedelic · Post by **kpsychedelic** » Mon May 28, 2012 8:17 am

usamablackbelt wrote: You're right, I want to keep the digital mixing realm. If, say, I want three to four audio inputs into my computer, what would you suggest as a mid-range quality audio interface?

I wouldn't know.
I came from a very cheap TonePort UX2 (I think that's what it was called), then I upgraded to the ZED10FX (which I'm in love with).
MOK19 already suggested one audio interface, and I think the beginners forum is always full with "what audio interface" topics so you could try reading some of those.

At least the important thing is that you have a good "home studio" deployed or in the looks so you know how much inputs you will need etc.

I think one, as a beginner, usually runs to buy whatever crap interface out there with a couple ins and not even monitor outs and bang, two years later it's eBay, craiglist or whatever you guys in the US (to givn an example) use to sell your second-hand stuff.

RPH · Post by **RPH** » Wed May 30, 2012 1:13 pm

Forget about USB1.1 interfaces, you can only send the mastersignal to the computer. I have A&H zed10, it only has a USB1.1 interface ( able to send master signal only to the computer ).

Go for a USB2.0 interface like these mixers:

- http://www.alesis.com/multimix8usb20fx ( about 200euros )
or
- http://www.alesis.com/multimix8usb20 ( about 300 euros )
or
- http://www.alesis.com/multimix16usb20 ( probebly about 600-700 euros? )

All able to send the mixer channels individually to the computer.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed May 30, 2012 1:45 pm

usamablackbelt wrote:I was thinking a mixer, because isn't that what you would need if you wanted a ton of hardware synths, and wanted to mix them into audio into a DAW? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

If you're adding hardware synths then you may need a mixer at some point. The Audio 8 is a perfectly good audio interface. It's USB2 with more than enough in/out for what you're doing, so why are thinking of changing to something else?. What hardware synths are thinking of adding?

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Wed May 30, 2012 5:05 pm

I'll go along with the consensus so far. A mixer's a nice luxury, but to be worthwhile you need a few pieces of h/w to warrant splashing out on a mixer. I sadly miss mixing on a mixer, and I aim to get back into it with a decent sized 16 channel one at some point in the future (I used to use a 24 channel in-line one and back then I A) had more fun mixing, and B) did better mixes than I now do in the box) . But having said that, I get by quite easily with a 4-in soundcard and my old patchbays.

I think to rationalise the expense of a mixer, you need at least 3 or 4 synths and some h/w FX units (whether that be compressors and/or reverbs). For my own setup, it's the external FX that would make a mixer the most useful - you can do send/returns with a soundcard, but it can get fiddly. Whereas if you're starting out for h/w with just synths, then a mixer isn't necessary just yet. And if you haven't even got any of your h/w synths yet, I think it's too soon to be looking at h/w compressors and reverbs - especially because the s/w plugins are that good nowadays that there's no point buying h/w FX unless you spend large. i.e. some Lexicon reverb and some esoteric compressors - not just some cheapo Behringer stuff that will likely sound worse than s/w anyway.

And as you say you like the hands-on approach to synthesis, look at synths with lots of knobs and sliders. I don't often see the point in keyboards with pages and pages of edit screens unless they sound radically different than s/w equivalents, because programming them is often more laborious than s/w. So possibly you're looking at analogue. Or at least some knobby digital h/w and maybe some older 2nd hand ones. I always liked the Alesis Ion sound, and it had lots of sliders and knobs - great fun to program. The older Viruses seemed to have more knobs and less edit pages too. Or Korg MS2000. There are a few that were good to program - seems to me that newer ones have more edit pages and less knobs. Cetainly the old analogues give you ease of use and knobs - although they tend to cost more. But you might still find things like the Roland MC202 or 101 reasonably priced. They're great fun to use and sound good. Personally I don't recommend Junos - they're easy to program but are so basic that they're not really worth the money. JX3p is a cracking synth that's still not exorbitant.

Want to build a small studio as my next "step" in producing.