Is a zero latency setup possible.. i am talking about effects.. or just a pipe dream? heck.....
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 2488 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Sydney, Australia
IMO I don't think it's possible with some plugins as they require digital data to be processed in a large buffer (e.g. linear phase filters). To fill that buffer first will result in latency. That's my understanding of it. 
Cowbells!
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- KVRAF
- 3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW
My plugins have up to several hundred thousand samples of latency. 
In general, all delay based plugins will have latency on the delay path. That's how they work. The example you cite of the 32 samples of latency in the Lexicon plugins should make no difference whatsoever if used on a send, as this corresponds to a distance of less than 1 foot.
The dry path, however, can (and should) be zero latency in such situations. So, if you use a delay/reverb/chorus/whatever on an insert, the wet channel will be delayed (it has to be, in order to work), but the dry path should be zero latency. Something like a flanger or phaser works best with both wet and dry having no latency.
Sean Costello
In general, all delay based plugins will have latency on the delay path. That's how they work. The example you cite of the 32 samples of latency in the Lexicon plugins should make no difference whatsoever if used on a send, as this corresponds to a distance of less than 1 foot.
The dry path, however, can (and should) be zero latency in such situations. So, if you use a delay/reverb/chorus/whatever on an insert, the wet channel will be delayed (it has to be, in order to work), but the dry path should be zero latency. Something like a flanger or phaser works best with both wet and dry having no latency.
Sean Costello
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- KVRAF
- 5200 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
I feel your pain (i use Live) but you'll have to deal with it. Especially if you plan to use UAD effects like i do. As you mentioned it Ableton is supposedly working on it for version 9.
AFAIK zero delay is not possible. Good i mean really good ASIO driver with lowest buffer size is all you can hope for. RME cards are known to work quite good at insanely low buffer sizes.
Btw i think it is crucial to have visual marker 100% in time with everything else. Because that's how i work. Simple as that. Luckily for me Cubase and FL Studio don't suffer fro this. Even when i use ton of effects which introduce delay.
AFAIK zero delay is not possible. Good i mean really good ASIO driver with lowest buffer size is all you can hope for. RME cards are known to work quite good at insanely low buffer sizes.
Btw i think it is crucial to have visual marker 100% in time with everything else. Because that's how i work. Simple as that. Luckily for me Cubase and FL Studio don't suffer fro this. Even when i use ton of effects which introduce delay.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 2236 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
you can use my host,pdc works perfectly but there is not much to see.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRist
- 493 posts since 20 Apr, 2004 from hki-fi
Not too important to me. And anyway, this is something that all audio software is still struggling with IMO (ie. the first place where to sacrifice CPU cycles are the things happening on the screen, at least with music apps). Best to not think about it too much and just keep on making music.ttoz wrote:I want to get other's opinions', how important it would be to you to have everything visually 100% in time with audio
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- KVRian
- 1355 posts since 27 Oct, 2009
The issue is not the plugins, but the host. Even with an RME or a Lynx with latencies lower than 1ms, you'll still have to switch to Cubase or Reaper (whichever works best).
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRian
- 1355 posts since 27 Oct, 2009
Go to some guitarists forum and check which plugins they recommend for zero latency. For example Decapitator is useless for live playing, 'cause it has a huge latency.
P.S. Effects inside Guitar Rig and Amplitube are always near-0 latency.
P.S. Effects inside Guitar Rig and Amplitube are always near-0 latency.
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- KVRist
- 380 posts since 30 Aug, 2001 from Pyrlandia
there is a world of difference between 'near' and 'no latency' in Theo's situation.
Theo, what you want to achieve simply means that you'd have to throw right out the window all effects using FIR filters, starting with linear phase eqs, and all effects that employ oversampling, since oversampling filters almost universally seem to induce latency, even IIR based ones. that these days would mean majority of effects featuring non-linearities.
edit. and of course all pitch and formant processors...
Theo, what you want to achieve simply means that you'd have to throw right out the window all effects using FIR filters, starting with linear phase eqs, and all effects that employ oversampling, since oversampling filters almost universally seem to induce latency, even IIR based ones. that these days would mean majority of effects featuring non-linearities.
edit. and of course all pitch and formant processors...
"Dont mistake your inability to understand how this happens for it actualy being imposible. " - nollock
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- KVRian
- 1355 posts since 27 Oct, 2009
OK, I read ttoz's first post through (it's a long post). So it's a bug that screws things up even if there is only 1 sample of latency, reported by the plugin. In this case you'll have to search for plugins that don't report the latency. True zero latency plugins will always have inferior sound, due to the facts michu stated.