KVR Audio

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:59 pm

izonin wrote:
egbert wrote:Read the quote from andy_cytomic - the developer of The Glue. What do you think he is saying when he says:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".
I am not pushing my own thesis, I am trying to follow his - my guess is that he knows what he is talking about.
No, that was my interpretation of the images. SPAN shows no suppression of the high frequencies. But the hi-hats still don't sound as open/transparent as on the hardware examples.

This is how the quote was set out:

andy_cytomic wrote:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".

Is this just misquoting or misformatting? Are those not andy_cytomics words? If not - A)someone needs to learn how to quote in KVR.

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Sorry about the confusion! This is what my post looks like:

Code: Select all

[quote="andy_cytomic"]

[img]http://www.cytomic.com/files/forums/spectrum-waves-sslgseries.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.cytomic.com/files/forums/spectrum-vertigo-vsc2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.cytomic.com/files/forums/spectrum-cytomic-theglue.jpg[/img][/quote]

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".

I only quoted the images.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:14 pm

Were the mousewheel things ever fixed?

michu · Post by **michu** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:20 pm

izonin wrote:No, that was my interpretation of the images. SPAN shows no suppression of the high frequencies. But the hi-hats still don't sound as open/transparent as on the hardware examples.

so you're not saying The Glue muffles something from original signal, just that it sounds muffled/less excited when compared to hardware. given that The Glue does not emulate frequency/phase response nor non-linear behaviour of hardware this is entirely possible

contrast · Post by **contrast** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:40 pm

egbert wrote:Is this just misquoting or misformatting? Are those not andy_cytomics words? If not - A)someone needs to learn how to quote in KVR.

"Someone" needs to learn how quotes are displayed on KVR: on a light blue background, instead of the darker blue background that the poster's content is on. So, please, stop trashing up the thread.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:05 am

Looks grey to me

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:30 am

egbert wrote:
izonin wrote:
egbert wrote:Read the quote from andy_cytomic - the developer of The Glue. What do you think he is saying when he says:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".
I am not pushing my own thesis, I am trying to follow his - my guess is that he knows what he is talking about.
No, that was my interpretation of the images. SPAN shows no suppression of the high frequencies. But the hi-hats still don't sound as open/transparent as on the hardware examples.
This is how the quote was set out:

andy_cytomic wrote:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".

Is this just misquoting or misformatting? Are those not andy_cytomics words? If not - A)someone needs to learn how to quote in KVR.

talk about being wrong and strong.....

egbert, it is as clear as day to me that it is you who read the quote wrong, not the person making the quote. And instead of apologising, you think the fault is the quoter not you?
smh

rsp

antithesist · Post by **antithesist** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:47 am

This is actually pretty funny, in a train wreck where no one got hurt kind of way.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:47 am

zvenx wrote:
egbert wrote:
izonin wrote:
egbert wrote:Read the quote from andy_cytomic - the developer of The Glue. What do you think he is saying when he says:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".
I am not pushing my own thesis, I am trying to follow his - my guess is that he knows what he is talking about.
No, that was my interpretation of the images. SPAN shows no suppression of the high frequencies. But the hi-hats still don't sound as open/transparent as on the hardware examples.
This is how the quote was set out:

andy_cytomic wrote:

These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".

Is this just misquoting or misformatting? Are those not andy_cytomics words? If not - A)someone needs to learn how to quote in KVR.

talk about being wrong and strong.....

egbert, it is as clear as day to me that it is you who read the quote wrong, not the person making the quote. And instead of apologising, you think the fault is the quoter not you?
smhrsp

Dude - it was set out thus.

andy_cytomic wrote:Blah blah blah

The text about the high freqs was in the contrasting colour box and the name above was andy_cytomic. That's a misquote due to misformatting. As far as anyone trying to pin this on me - wtf. I was simply confused by the misquoting. I didn't have time to finish my last post so I didn't enclose the text in a "coloured box" or whatever - I had to go but thought it would be sufficiently clear. I am amazed that some think not. After my several posts.

michu · Post by **michu** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:14 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30#4966730

you refer to that post. Andy's pics are in a quote box with Andy's name above it. Izonin's comment is below it in a regular post box. which part exactly have you found misquoted or misformated?

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:38 am

izonin wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
meloco_go wrote:
egbert wrote:The upper partials are comparitively suppressed - hence less top end.
Wrong assumption.
Load up The Glue in Christian Budde's VST Plugin Analyzer then start playing around with the frequency response analysis: The Glue remains flat no matter what you throw at it. Not sure where all this talk of a loss of high end suddenly started, but there's a measurable difference between being flat, having a loss of high end, and having a hyped top end IMO.
I got the impression that there is loss in the high frequencies, listening to the comparisons with the hardware on the Cytomic's site. Probably the analog compressor enhances/vitalizes the high end.

The hardware has the same spectrum as The Glue. The circuit The Glue is based on has a one pole low pass filter at around 15 kHz on the envelope follower signal going to the gain reduction amps. This and the natural action of a diode driven envelope follower attenuate the harmonics which are shown in those plots.

In the audio examples against the analog hardware the main reason the top end doesn't sound as clear that no oversampling was used on the original processing sample rate of 44100 Hz. The "muffling" is due to aliasing, which is shown in red in the plots you pointed out before, the more red the more muffled the top end will sound. Oversampling will remove this muffling, but the analog hardware will still have a little more sparkle on the top end due to many slight non-linearities not modelled in The Glue.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:42 am

izonin wrote: These pictures explain the clean sound, but also the slightly muffled high frequencies. Hi-hats and rides lose some of the openness when "glued".

Michu misquoted me, the correct quote is shown above and the comment was made by izonin in this post here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30#4966730

(edit: thanks michu, only just read your post above after posting this)

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:16 am

So the quotation was correct? Those were in fact andy's words under the graphs - that's the way I took it originally and several people jumped on me.

In case anyone doesn't know what a one pole low pass filter at 15kHz entails - that frequency is the -3dB point and the slope is -6 dB per octave. If that filter is being applied to all wet output there will be a noticeable reduction in the high end - which is not necessarily a bad thing.

meloco_go · Post by **meloco_go** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:16 am

andy_cytomic wrote:Oversampling will remove this muffling, but the analog hardware will still have a little more sparkle on the top end due to many slight non-linearities not modelled in The Glue.

I think the Glue is a tad more "grabby" than HW, like it follows the waveform more tightly. Maybe that's what non-linearities give you?
Anyway, I can tune the behaviour using external sidechain processing.

meloco_go · Post by **meloco_go** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:20 am

egbert wrote:So the quotation was correct? Those were in fact andy's words under the graphs - that's the way I took it originally and several people jumped on me.

In case anyone doesn't know what a one pole low pass filter at 15kHz entails - that frequency is the -3dB point and the slope is -6 dB per octave. If that filter is being applied to all wet output there will be a noticeable reduction in the high end - which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Read Andy's post with more attention. The low pass filter is applied to the sidechain only, not to the actual sound going thru.

Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor