Improving music/keyboard skills... what to do

[neoncortex]

Hey

I'm at the very beginnings of my ventures into electronic music production (compared to many of you), having only made short sketches of songs... Though I have all the tools (keyboard, plugins) to start making full tracks I still think I want to take half a year or so to learn the keyboard better, to be able to take what's in my head and play it, rather than jotting down notes on the piano roll. Genre-wise I'm aiming for house, techno, trance, experimental, anything with a juicy groove in it.

So what's a good "regimen" for learning the keyboard... Scales obviously, Hanon exercises perhaps? How beneficial would it be to learn other people's songs (using Synthesia)? How to learn improvisation over chords, all that stuff. All advice is appreciated since I know there's many talented musicians here.

[jopy]

i'll be the first to chime in that it's much more important to learn other people's songs that you like than to work on digital patterns like hanon. if you want to write your own music, learn how to translate what's in your ear into your fingers by sketching out melodies of simple songs you know. that way, when you start hearing your own melodies, you'll have an easier time mastering translating those ideas into reality.

hanon might be useful if you want to develop carpal tunnel syndrome, but i can't think of much else it's good for. if you want to develop keyboard technique, learn to play some good classical pieces (e.g., etudes or baroque keyboard pieces) that demand both digital facility as well as expression and taste.

[tapper mike]

I'll second that. Though I will say that scale patterns are very effective at developing dexterity wear as learning licks can trap one in a box with no means of escape. Ultimately It's not what you learn via route it's how well you can apply what you learn that makes all the difference.

[jancivil]

Yeah, Hanon is just to mutate your hands so you can reach for Liszt Transcendental Etudes, like that.

it isn't music, it isn't musical, it's just torture certain types of trainers put people through.

better to go for pieces of music, w. indicated fingerings.

Bartok Mikrokosmos is for beginners and is very musical, albeit it might be strange if you're not used to abstract music.

but besides the skill of getting around on a keyboard, learn about intervals in the context of songs, learn to identify the feel you get off this and the other interval in the context of a tune.

[NKF]

Yeah, Hanon is just to mutate your hands so you can reach for Liszt Transcendental Etudes, like that.

I would go even further and say that even for purely technical reasons. hanon is rather a waste of time.
Learning piano involves many things that all must happen at the same time. Technique, sight reading, theory ....

It would be hard to suggest a route without knowing your time line, your goals and such. For EDM, i think perhaps keyboard harmony would be more fruitful that just learning pieces as you can apply what you learn more readily. I would focus somewhat on technique at the beginning so you don't hurt yourself but then again, if you don't really play, you probably won't hurt yourself even with bad technique.

[ras.s]

One crazy thing to do on a keyboard is to use split zones to play two instruments at the same time. You could play a pad sound or chords with your left hand and let your right hand be your synthesizer's arpeggiator. Or bass and piano for some harmonic study. Mighty fun and educating too.

Though if your keyboard doesn't support split zones, it can be a bit difficult to set it up in the software realm (you will probably need some midi fx) ..

[billcarroll]

Hey

I'm at the very beginnings of my ventures into electronic music production (compared to many of you), having only made short sketches of songs... Though I have all the tools (keyboard, plugins) to start making full tracks I still think I want to take half a year or so to learn the keyboard better, to be able to take what's in my head and play it, rather than jotting down notes on the piano roll. Genre-wise I'm aiming for house, techno, trance, experimental, anything with a juicy groove in it.

So what's a good "regimen" for learning the keyboard... Scales obviously, Hanon exercises perhaps? How beneficial would it be to learn other people's songs (using Synthesia)? How to learn improvisation over chords, all that stuff. All advice is appreciated since I know there's many talented musicians here.

You could try a piano self study program like "Hal Leonard Learn & Master Piano" or maybe "Learn & Master Piano with Will Barrow".

Taking some lessons in your local area might be fun too.

[elnn]

Yeah, Hanon is just to mutate your hands so you can reach for Liszt Transcendental Etudes, like that.

it isn't music, it isn't musical, it's just torture certain types of trainers put people through.

better to go for pieces of music, w. indicated fingerings.

Bartok Mikrokosmos is for beginners and is very musical, albeit it might be strange if you're not used to abstract music.

but besides the skill of getting around on a keyboard, learn about intervals in the context of songs, learn to identify the feel you get off this and the other interval in the context of a tune.

I don't see how having pristine technique can do wrong to anyone. Exercises for technique were never musical and aren't supposed to be, but you sure as hell couldn't play e.g. Gershwin freely without having your fingers fully at your command.

I believe it's nonsense what you say about learning just other people's songs - it's important to do both. Classical pianists don't play loads of scales and oads of classical tunes just for shit and giggles - technique is vital if you want to be able to play at sufficient levels - it's much better to have all that technique at your disposal and play something easier easily, rather than being able to play some chords but struggle with simple scale runs.

It boils down to what you need/want to learn to play keyboards for - if it's just for chordal structures and progressions, you don't really need to learn to play the piano that much. If you want to widen your musical horizons: learn lots, from pure technique (Hanon) to theory and classical/jazz tunes and you'll begin to incorporate it into your music naturally. After a while you may even develop your own unique voice (doesn't come quickly), which is always great.
tl;dr: it depends on what you want to do with keyboards - if you want keyboard music, you need technique, if you want just chords, you don't really need piano much.


Oh, and btw, it's not in the technique the non-musicality - it's in the use of it. Technical music can be extremely interesting and innovative and 'musical', it's how you use that technique that matters (see )

[NKF]

but classical pianists are faced with music that requires such technique. The individual posting seems to want to learn it as a tool for writing. So i would agree that technique is not so important. You sort of agreed that technique only matters if you need it. And hanon is one of those things teachers that don't know better make their students do because they were told to use by someone else. It is awful in developing technique.

[jancivil]

well, I realize that 'EDM' brings a kind of belief about a narrowed-down or dumbed-down approach.

BUT, I think to say, 'you should learn other music' just because, 'it's music'. It's entry-level music but that is no reason for me to say anything different about what I think you otta do than I would to someone that had another interest: Get an ear together. Get it together with your body with an instrument. Playing songs by people that bloody knew about writing a song.

It is true that copy and paste is a compositional move. Reiteration is a compositional decision. For me, editing of midi, dragging notes around to get the timing I want is composition. The piano roll rules ok.

HOWEVER I have a sense of time that comes from being a musician in realtime; this informs the decisions. If keyboard is going to be your only instrument I think you could stand to get some chops in order to make your life at the DAW go more smoothly.

However, I will share this out of my experience as a concert performer (guitar): I didn't spend time on scales unless scales were featured in the piece I was preparing. I think scales are not pieces of music. I think practicing hours of scales makes you good at practicing scales. You will see what fingering you need with pieces of music with intelligent indications of fingerings, directly applied. (There might be other exercises that are more direct as far as building muscle. If you're going to play music with a lot of scales, do concentrate on scales. I had to run arpeggios for this whole Paganini type of lick certainly. But I practiced the lick, you know.)

(I am not a keyboard player. The best opportuntity I had for it would have been at SFCM, but the dude assigned to me for secondary piano was an idiot and prescribed Hanon and scales, instead of say, easy pieces OF MUSIC. He didn't have time for the gig of secondary piano tutor apparently, he didn't give a rat's ass about it. I still have this resentment!) You're not going to find much music in scales. if you have to perform, you need chops. I was in a hurry myself at one time and I looked for exercises that directly meant something. They weren't Hanon-like, they were designed to build the finger strength and independence mainly.

I make very detailed, convincing 'performances' with a keyboard controller and midi editing. I am not a keyboard player. Everybody finds a way to get shit done. That said, your music will be enriched by the musicianship you acquire on an instrument. Could be drums... Depends on what you need; but what you feel you need could be expanded by experience Playing Music. Scales are some boring shit, Jim.

[neoncortex]

The individual posting seems to want to learn it as a tool for writing

You're right, the only thing I'm aiming for is to be able to improvise riffs/progressions and stuff within key and get my thoughts down on the piano roll as effortlessly as possible...

Posts have been an interesting read so far Thanks

[DefiantCatz70]

In the beginning I bought various piano videos and just watched them and put as many hours into practice

[tapper mike]

I kind of disagree with the whole study everything and understand everything before you write anything. That actually moves one away from the creative expression found in experimentation.

Michio Kaku has a very valid point here -


I think it's better to write a little, If you don't love it that's okay, Learn a little, write a little more trying to apply what you know and what you can do. That way you are always moving in the direction of writing and even you think your music is not ready for the world or the other way around you still have a progress chart to work from.

[jancivil]

...

but besides the skill of getting around on a keyboard, learn about intervals in the context of songs, learn to identify the feel you get off this and the other interval in the context of a tune.

I don't see how having pristine technique can do wrong to anyone....

I believe it's nonsense what you say about learning just other people's songs - it's important to do both. ...

- I mean beside, alongside of. I think 'learning what one needs for what one's goal is at the moment', is perhaps better geared for someone at the beginning of their journey, vs. any overarching transcendental goal. What everyone needs in order to write music is to have the meaning/feeling of intervals out of the experience of it in context, in some music. That isn't nonsense, it ought to be self-evident. However per this board it doesn't appear to be; people are often after something more reductive and 'what theory do I need to "know" so I can do this' ... I learned a lot from figuring shit out by myself off of records, didn't have a lot of speed or flash, and the things I improvised made a whole lot of sense as music; actually I became known for 'musicality' and recommended for it by the local virtuoso, as the tasteful player... I'm happy to have emphasized what I did. Later I felt the need to be more impressive, after a 'professionalism' type of aspiration ... But, here is no evidence in the OP that is what's going on.

[Deathh Cvlt]

Imm struggling too my friend