Card vs Onboard vs Interface... for Studio Monitors and latency

[MiyaDV]

Hey,


first off, currently I'm doing everything ITB, I have no analogue stuff BUT was thinking of purchasing a guitar in the future for recording BUT when I do (which is far away) I'll probably buy a good interface along with it, right now I'm eating like 1$ meals everyday to get these things.

I'm buying a pair of Studio Monitors for around 250$, they have 1/4 TRS to connect to. My computer has a 1/8" connection. Now, I could just get a 1/8" to two 1/4" TRS and connect my monitors right?


I currently use ASIO4ALL and FL studio, I manange to get around 256 to 516 samples depending on how many VST I layer, I can play my midi keyboard at even lower samples on single VST and I have no problem with latency as it is, but I'm told I need to upgrade to a PCIe card or an external interface/card as they have TRS connections. Personally I'd rather save the money for more RAM or something as I don't have any problems with my current onboard stuff

Anyway They come with their own ASIO drivers and I'm worried the latency might not be as good as I currently have it, or I'll get driver issues etc,


I haven't looked into suondcards, but I've been looking up interfaces because supposedly from literally everywhere I read "you have to have one for monitors" Though I've read some conflicting opinions about eletronic music production only, they still suggest one for latency issues and such

http://www.amazon.com/Roland-TRI-CAPTUR ... B004KCNJR0

What do you guys think about this one? If I get that would I be able to control the volume of both monitors with the two knobs on it? Also a question about mixers

I currently have a volume control on my keyboard I've used to control the volume of my current spaekers, so I was wondering if I needed one? I also haven't looked those up and honestly that interface I linked is over my budget as it is

[BertKoor]

I'm buying a pair of Studio Monitors for around 250$, they have 1/4 TRS to connect to. My computer has a 1/8" connection. Now, I could just get a 1/8" to two 1/4" TRS and connect my monitors right?

There's one slight problem: Y-cables usually don't split that far to connect to monitors that are like 6 foot apart. So you'd need two mono extention cables of sufficient length. In your case I'd construct it from some standard parts:
* standard 1/8" TRS --> RCA male cable
* male-male RCA adapters
* two single male RCA - 1/4" TRS cables

If you want to do it on the cheap, then find a soldering iron and buy (or reuse) some cables and plugs.

I currently use ASIO4ALL and FL studio, I manange to get around 256 to 516 samples depending on how many VST I layer, I can play my midi keyboard at even lower samples on single VST and I have no problem with latency as it is, but I'm told I need to upgrade to a PCIe card or an external interface/card as they have TRS connections. Personally I'd rather save the money for more RAM or something as I don't have any problems with my current onboard stuff

The TRS connectors have nothing to do with latency. But since latency is not your top priority, you really don't need an interface (either PCI, USB or FireWire, those are all audio interfaces)

Anyway They come with their own ASIO drivers and I'm worried the latency might not be as good as I currently have it, or I'll get driver issues etc

It will be a step forward anyway, provided you don't buy cheap junk.

I read "you have to have one for monitors" Though I've read some conflicting opinions about eletronic music production only, they still suggest one for latency issues and such

Latency is one reason for getting a proper audio interface. Better D/A converters is another one. Onboard soundchips used to have converters of poor quality: low dynamic range, high noise floor, non-flat frequency response... But these things are not all equal, things have improved much in recent years. It could be that the sound quality of your onboard soundchip is already quite good. Hard to tell without actually measuring it with a tool such as RMAA

http://www.amazon.com/Roland-TRI-CAPTUR ... B004KCNJR0
What do you guys think about this one? If I get that would I be able to control the volume of both monitors with the two knobs on it?

Hmmm, that actually looks quite nice. But alas the 'phones' knob only controls the headphone volume. I've just looked at the owner's manual and it says on page 12:

The volume of the signals output from the OUTPUT jacks cannot be adjusted on the TRICAPTURE itself.

If you're interested in controlling volume of your monitors (without an interface or mixer) the cheapest I can think of is the SM-Pro Audio NanoPatch passive volume control
http://www.amazon.com/SM-Pro-Audio-Pass ... B000T9K8ZO
That would also simplify your connections to the monitors:
* standard 1/8" TRS --> RCA male cable
* two RCA female --> TRS male adapter plugs
* that combo goes into the NanoPatch
* two standard TRS mono patch cables from NanoPatch to the monitors

You could also build such a volume control yourself. It's just a stereo potmeter in a box with some connectors. But the parts would be worth something like $30 already. And if your soldering skills aren't any good you'll be constantly fixing lose connections.

Going back to the audio interface, a simular one for less money is the Lexicon Alpha Studio. It does feature output level control, and has mic & guitar inputs. Only 44.1 & 48kHz sampling rates alas, but you won't really need 96kHz anyway. Converter specs look better than of the Roland (6dB less noise)

I currently have a volume control on my keyboard I've used to control the volume of my current spaekers

How does that work exactly? Does the audio go through the keyboard?

so I was wondering if I needed one?

If you question it, then the answer is probably that you don't need it. A hands-on volume control is nice to have. But on the other hand, there are active monitors with a volume control on the front. Personally I use passive monitors (Alesis Monitor One MkII) connected to an old hifi amp. Works like a charm. If you chose passive monitors you get better quality in the same price bracket, since there's no additional amp inside. You probably can find an old decent hifi amp somewhere to reuse.

and honestly that interface I linked is over my budget as it is

I just save you $50 if you get those passive monitors. Also solves the volume control and connection troubles (hifi amp takes standard RCA input.) To be honoust, $100 for a good interface is already pretty cheap. But if money is a real issue then the first priority is your monitors. If you have access to a good hifi amp, then get passive ones.

[thecontrolcentre]

A soundcard and an audio interface are the same thing, and the main benefit is improved audio quality from your monitors. A decent interface with good drivers should achieve better latency than ASIO4ALL, but it's not guaranteed. I'm presuming the monitors you are buying are active. If so, this lead will do the job. http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_ypk2030.htm

[MiyaDV]

Thanks for the huge reply! I was thinking of ordering today and was going to get that inerface, you just saved me from a frustrating process there lol and the controller you linked looks great, because I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a way to control the volome inless this works:

When I meant keyboard I meant my computer keyboard, it has a volume up and down button I've used with my current spaekers that are connected to my computer. So I thought if the monitors I get are connected to the computer it would work the same way, but for some reason I'm doubtful it seems monitors work differently.

The monitors I'm planning on getting are active ones, I've looked at almost all on the market I'm deciding between a few right now but they're all active and have volume controls in the back

The test site you posted interested me, but I was rather confused trying to figure out how to do it. I built my computer a few years ago with AMD stuff I looked up my motherboard and my onboard has this:
Realtek ALC889A
I searched online, that seems to be released around 2008 and people back then were saying they got better sound out of gaming soundcards etc, I couldn't find any professional comparisons but from way back then, I'm sure the onboard couldn't be as good as in recent years.

Back to the interface thing, I'm definitely thinking I need to get one now after reading up about how bad my onboard is lol but, my computer is also at the max of it's upgradability currently (as in I can't add a newer processor due to format thing) I was thinking, if the current newest onboard chips are actually good, I could spend around 90$ and get a new board for my computer and have a new socket for upgrading my CPU, but AMDs new processor isn't THAT much better so it might be kinda a pointless buy. Current interface should be better anyway right?


Ok the site I'm planning on ordering from has a 40$ off on orders over 360$ going on right now, which is great they also pricematch all other offical retailers, so I'm going to look for an interface for around 150-200$ range, do you think I can get a decent one in that range?

if not, I can always just get the monitors now and just hook them up with the adapterss

[tehlord]

I'd spend $250 on good monitoring headphones rather than bad monitoring speakers. Probably more like $150-200 in fact.

[MiyaDV]

I actually have a pair of Sennheiser open backed headphones from years ago, they were around 160$ HD565 or something but I don't use them as I seem to get uncomfortable with headphones on, something about the pressure or something. I use to use headphones all the time, but I get this weird thing where I feel like I can feel a slight pain around my ers. I been to the doctor he said there was nothing wrong so.. I will say though that it started after using some earbuds and I have no idea if those are what caused it or not

I was also under the impression that it's hard to mix on headphones, atleast from sources I read I'm reading this SoS article right now about it because you brought it up

[BertKoor]

Just a quick reply before I dash off: the volume control on a "multimedia" keyboard does nothing for "real" audio interfaces. Works for WDM devices only, ASIO applications bypass that mixer level.

And do consider passive speakers + thriftstore amp if money is an issue. Think twice, you can spend the dollar only once! It's impulse buys you'll regret most!

[MiyaDV]

Yup, impulse buying has got me a lot over the years. I'm pretty impatient about things, I was going to get things last week, then I learned about some other stuff, I was going to order today, but learning about new things now too. I think I spent so much time on this I'm fine with just waiting it out now. Going to research more and maybe drive up to a store around here and see if they got any monitors I can try out.

[Kaine]

Onboard soundchips used to have converters of poor quality: low dynamic range, high noise floor, non-flat frequency response... But these things are not all equal, things have improved much in recent years. It could be that the sound quality of your onboard soundchip is already quite good. Hard to tell without actually measuring it with a tool such as RMAA

I used to think that as well, and then I put a Xonar in my gaming box. I've never bothered doing an A/B between Realtek and the RME in my studio box but seeing as the convertors on that are a step up again I can hear where the money is going. If you've ever only used the Realtek or cheap monitors then you won't notice, but the noise floor on those onboard chips is certainly noticable when you start to compare it to dedicated interfaces.

If you're interested in controlling volume of your monitors (without an interface or mixer) the cheapest I can think of is the SM-Pro Audio NanoPatch passive volume control
http://www.amazon.com/SM-Pro-Audio-Pass ... B000T9K8ZO

Yeah, the build quality and sound quality of the SMPro stuff is top notch.

Ok the site I'm planning on ordering from has a 40$ off on orders over 360$ going on right now, which is great they also pricematch all other offical retailers, so I'm going to look for an interface for around 150-200$ range, do you think I can get a decent one in that range?

At that price point the Native Instruments KA6 great drivers, sounds good has guitar inputs for when you get around to it. If you can't stretch that far then a Focusrite 2i2 for 2/3'rds of the price should do you well too althrough the extra performance the NI divers give make it worth the extra if you can stretch.