Toontrack "Music City" kit pieces vs "Metal Foundry" kit pieces

[optofonik]

Right try these (A couple of part finished songs)

I originally tried metal foundry but wound up using NY2, I found it punched more:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... ality-snip

This is metal foundry, even though the tracks not super heavy:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... od-snippet

Very encouraging to hear NY2 in that context. Do you still have a mix with Metal Foundry? It would be interesting to hear the difference when all else is equal. What drums did you use for, "Freeway Speed"?

Uhhmm, I hope you don't mind me saying this regarding, "Streets Drink Blood", but your vocal performance on it deserves to be heard up front and all it would take is slightly less fx and I do mean slightly less because the fx you've chosen for your voice are perfect. I honestly believe that if you dial down the fx just a little you will hear a power in your voice you might not have expected. Your voice on "Freeway Speed" is more up front but it's not as dynamic a performance as on "SDB" which has more potential to feature your vocal ability as a result. Again, I hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I really like "Streets Drink Blood", is there a full version somewhere?


"Static Remix", is a great vocal performance as well, lots of variation and the fx are well chosen again.

I know you didn't offer this stuff up for criticism but I like it enough to listen to most of it (at this very moment) which I don't often do.

Damn, "Shatter Me", is another good one, all around.

[cryophonik]

Maybe a little OT here, but this is an interesting and timely thread for me. I just added the Music City SDX to my collection yesterday after looking for something to complement my NY vol2 SDX that I purchased a few months ago, based on the suggestions in this thread. I was debating on the C&V or one of the Roots SDXs because, based on their descriptions, those seemed to be the most useful for the style of combined acoustic/electronic downtempo sound that I am after. However, all the demos I heard of these two SDXs just weren't convincing me to pull the trigger. TBH, I never even considered Music City or Metal Foundry, because I'm not doing anything Nashville-ish/country/western or metal...until I happened to come across a couple of youtube vids by people triggering these expansions live (e.g., with Roland V-drums) and I was actually blown away by both. I made the decision to go with Music City, but there's a good chance that I'll add Metal Foundry before the sale ends, or during the next sale.

Anyway, bringing this (hopefully) full circle to the topic at hand, what really struck me is how versatile these SDXs really are, as this thread also points out. I think Toontrack might be wise to promote their flexibility, rather than trying to pigeonhole the SDXs into narrow genres. FXpansion has taken a better route in this regard (IMO), where the focus of the BFD2 expansions is on the brand/model and quality of the instrument used, and leaves the intended use up to the customer. Sorry, hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

[an-electric-heart]

Right try these (A couple of part finished songs)

I originally tried metal foundry but wound up using NY2, I found it punched more:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... ality-snip

This is metal foundry, even though the tracks not super heavy:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... od-snippet

Very encouraging to hear NY2 in that context. Do you still have a mix with Metal Foundry? It would be interesting to hear the difference when all else is equal. What drums did you use for, "Freeway Speed"?

Uhhmm, I hope you don't mind me saying this regarding, "Streets Drink Blood", but your vocal performance on it deserves to be heard up front and all it would take is slightly less fx and I do mean slightly less because the fx you've chosen for your voice are perfect. I honestly believe that if you dial down the fx just a little you will hear a power in your voice you might not have expected. Your voice on "Freeway Speed" is more up front but it's not as dynamic a performance as on "SDB" which has more potential to feature your vocal ability as a result. Again, I hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I really like "Streets Drink Blood", is there a full version somewhere?


"Static Remix", is a great vocal performance as well, lots of variation and the fx are well chosen again.

I know you didn't offer this stuff up for criticism but I like it enough to listen to most of it (at this very moment) which I don't often do.

Damn, "Shatter Me", is another good one, all around.

Hey cheers, I don't mind constructive criticism one bit... in fact...
cheers

I think the entire first E.P was Metal Foundry... even though it's not metal at all, like the guy above said, the're very diverse, I just look at the list of drums, the word "metal" in the name really isn't relevant, I'm not so proud of my first E.P, it's not terrible, it gets local radio play, but I wrote and recorded it in a week, when I listen to it I hear lazy song writing and a rushed mix


The full length Streets will be on my next E.P, it's taking a while because I'm blocked for verse lyrics for virtual reality.

I used a lot of effects on the streets lead because I thought the melody was a little bland so it needed a little something else, the vocals were kind of inspired by "the Wall, part 2" I just kind of wanted to deliver the verses in almost a spoken manner... in fact the whole song is kind of a little nod to Pink Floyd.

But basically in the end all Toontrack products are pretty awesome, the're a great company.

I got the Slate no brainer the other day, I'll be using that for sure, I'm exited about the idea of having drums that are already mixed by someone who's a lot better, the only thing that turns me off about the Slate collection is that most of it is other bands signature drum sounds, I'm waaaaay to proud to ever use an exact copy of someone else's signature sound!

Cheers for the feedback again, really appreciate it.

[optofonik]

Maybe a little OT here...

Not OT at all. Very insightful, actually.

... the focus of the BFD2 expansions is on the brand/model and quality of the instrument used, and leaves the intended use up to the customer. Sorry, hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

Cross referencing all the "Details" sections on the TT site for each kit has led me to the same conclusion. It would be very helpful. For instance, there are a lot of "Black Beauty" snares scattered throughout the different libraries and a quick cursory glance through the different "Details" sections by a non-drummer could lead one to believe there is a lot of redundancy as a result. Looking closer it becomes apparent that there are a lot of different versions and vintages of the "Black Beauty".

As a result, of my digging into the details (pun intended) I've started to concentrate on kit pieces instead of the rooms and players. I'm not discounting their importance. just taking the kit pieced more into consideration.

[optofonik]

Maybe a little OT here...

Not OT at all. Very insightful, actually.

... the focus of the BFD2 expansions is on the brand/model and quality of the instrument used, and leaves the intended use up to the customer. Sorry, hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

Cross referencing all the "Details" sections on the TT site for each kit has led me to the same conclusion. It would be very helpful. For instance, there are a lot of "Black Beauty" snares scattered throughout the different libraries and a quick cursory glance through the different "Details" sections by a non-drummer could lead one to believe there is a lot of redundancy as a result. Looking closer it becomes apparent that there are a lot of different versions and vintages of the "Black Beauty".

As a result, of my digging into the details (pun intended) I've started to concentrate on kit pieces instead of the rooms and players. I'm not discounting their importance. just taking the kit pieced more into consideration. The change in my focus has led me to consider the Roots Bundle as an excellent choice over Music City because of the unique pieces of kit it has to offer, much like C&V does. Metal Foundry is till on the table in spite of my having the original DFHS library although there could be some redundancy.

[optofonik]

Right try these (A couple of part finished songs)

I originally tried metal foundry but wound up using NY2, I found it punched more:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... ality-snip

This is metal foundry, even though the tracks not super heavy:

http://soundcloud.com/anelectricheartmu ... od-snippet

Very encouraging to hear NY2 in that context. Do you still have a mix with Metal Foundry? It would be interesting to hear the difference when all else is equal. What drums did you use for, "Freeway Speed"?

Uhhmm, I hope you don't mind me saying this regarding, "Streets Drink Blood", but your vocal performance on it deserves to be heard up front and all it would take is slightly less fx and I do mean slightly less because the fx you've chosen for your voice are perfect. I honestly believe that if you dial down the fx just a little you will hear a power in your voice you might not have expected. Your voice on "Freeway Speed" is more up front but it's not as dynamic a performance as on "SDB" which has more potential to feature your vocal ability as a result. Again, I hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I really like "Streets Drink Blood", is there a full version somewhere?


"Static Remix", is a great vocal performance as well, lots of variation and the fx are well chosen again.

I know you didn't offer this stuff up for criticism but I like it enough to listen to most of it (at this very moment) which I don't often do.

Damn, "Shatter Me", is another good one, all around.

Hey cheers, I don't mind constructive criticism one bit... in fact...
cheers

I think the entire first E.P was Metal Foundry... even though it's not metal at all, like the guy above said, the're very diverse, I just look at the list of drums, the word "metal" in the name really isn't relevant, I'm not so proud of my first E.P, it's not terrible, it gets local radio play, but I wrote and recorded it in a week, when I listen to it I hear lazy song writing and a rushed mix


The full length Streets will be on my next E.P, it's taking a while because I'm blocked for verse lyrics for virtual reality.

I used a lot of effects on the streets lead because I thought the melody was a little bland so it needed a little something else, the vocals were kind of inspired by "the Wall, part 2" I just kind of wanted to deliver the verses in almost a spoken manner... in fact the whole song is kind of a little nod to Pink Floyd.

But basically in the end all Toontrack products are pretty awesome, the're a great company.

I got the Slate no brainer the other day, I'll be using that for sure, I'm exited about the idea of having drums that are already mixed by someone who's a lot better, the only thing that turns me off about the Slate collection is that most of it is other bands signature drum sounds, I'm waaaaay to proud to ever use an exact copy of someone else's signature sound!

Cheers for the feedback again, really appreciate it.

Glad you took my comments in the spirit intended. Thanks for the insight. I'm following you on Soundcloud now so I'll look forward to more in the future.

[an-electric-heart]

Maybe a little OT here...

Not OT at all. Very insightful, actually.

... the focus of the BFD2 expansions is on the brand/model and quality of the instrument used, and leaves the intended use up to the customer. Sorry, hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

Cross referencing all the "Details" sections on the TT site for each kit has led me to the same conclusion. It would be very helpful. For instance, there are a lot of "Black Beauty" snares scattered throughout the different libraries and a quick cursory glance through the different "Details" sections by a non-drummer could lead one to believe there is a lot of redundancy as a result. Looking closer it becomes apparent that there are a lot of different versions and vintages of the "Black Beauty".

As a result, of my digging into the details (pun intended) I've started to concentrate on kit pieces instead of the rooms and players. I'm not discounting their importance. just taking the kit pieced more into consideration.

You're dead right, there's a black beauty in every library except metal foundry I think, it's a little thing, I just personally would have liked to have seen one,
you can mix kits with the X drum thingy, but I wouldn't want one kit made out drums recorded in different rooms.

[optofonik]

You're dead right, there's a black beauty in every library except metal foundry I think, it's a little thing, I just personally would have liked to have seen one,
you can mix kits with the X drum thingy, but I wouldn't want one kit made out drums recorded in different rooms.

Someone elsewhere mentioned that not including a Black Beauty in a metal library seemed something of a glaring omission. Considering how many are scattered elsewhere one does wonder.

[gabebrunogarza1021]

Thanks again, that would be great and I think there are others who would benefit from the comparison as well. Like I said earlier, the context you present them in is perfect. It's difficult at times to compare differences when the music surrounding the drums isn't the same. It's late here as well. I'll check in tomorrow.

Here it is.


I'm showing the following kits

Custom & Vintage SDX
NY - Allaire
NY - Avatar
NY - Hit Factory
Nashville
The Metal Foundry
Americana
The Classic

I'm playing a demo I did with a sampled library called Ilya Efimov Acoustic Guitar Strum 1.5 and play 3 bars, and load the next kit and play it again until i've gone thru the mentioned kits.

[hibidy]

This is an impossibly difficult and subjective thing to answer. But, since a couple of packs I have have been brought up, I like C&V the best over all of anything I have. Why? Because the kicks are terrific, the snares sound like snares and the cymbals sound like cymbals. I know.......great description hun?

Many others just sound processed to me. The NY2 is pretty good, but I'm not sold on the kicks. The roots has nice snares, but I HATE the ride.

btw, has anyone brought up x drums? Maybe rolling your own kits might be the thing to do?

[optofonik]

Gabe, thanks again. Your examples confirm a bit if what I was thinking regarding how C&V might compare to the Americana and Music City sessions. I think C&V has me covered for what I would use the other two for and the kit pieces aren't as unique as the ones in their latest SDX, "Roots". I did some work with the original DFHS Drummer (not the new EZX version) last night and it's pretty aggressive so I'm still on the fence about MF.

Hibidy, it is a great description and I agree with you %100 about C&V sounding so natural. Would you mind elaborating a bit more on your impression of "Roots" and any redundancy with C&V? Rolling my own is one if the reasons I'm more interested in the SDX series.

[hibidy]

Hibidy, it is a great description and I agree with you %100 about C&V sounding so natural. Would you mind elaborating a bit more on your impression of "Roots" and any redundancy with C&V? Rolling my own is one if the reasons I'm more interested in the SDX series.

If you like ringy snares, you you'll love the snares in roots. Funky, ringy snares. But that ride.........GAG! The decco mics are useful too for an old school flavor. Redundancy? I don't think so. I also think the kicks are a tad boxy, but nothing bad. I just really like putting the C&V kicks in a mix, I seem to be able to find what I want when I want.

I don't have examples because I'm on my x86 machine right now. Don't even bother with either of the roots if you have x86 My gawd, it's insane how much ram they can take (I think about 1.5 gigs each??)

[optofonik]

Thanks for all the comments and insight. I've been nothing but happy with the TT libraries so far and see no reason for that to change so I purchased both, in addition to Roots. The sale price is too low to forgo the opportunity to add the libraries I don't have to my DAW. I've never seen the SDX libraries priced this low and can't imagine them going lower any time soon.

Also, after successfully completing a round of MIDI tests to suss out any timing issues I really wanted to get closer to locking down my DAW. These libraries along with the ones I already have mean my virtual drum locker is fully stocked and ready for business, so to speak. I feel like it's a bit of a milestone, actually.

[JohnPativens]

I love all the kits, but the NY ones have a soft hard hit but the Metal Foundry has a hard hard hit.

I have Metal Foundry and NY vol.1, and actually I've always thought those MF hits to be not that hard, especially its snares. NY Avatar seems to have harder snare hits than MF to me.
Usually I load MF when I need a very large kit rather than a metal oriented kit.

Also, when I'm programming drums with superior, I have to think at higher velocity values for snares, toms and kick drums.. it sounds like its "sweet spot" stays at around 115/127, excluding ghosts. Actually, snares sound the best maxxed at 127 to me, at least for pop/rock/mainstream drums. If you look at the midi library included, you'll see velocity was set very high pretty everywhere.
It's just like snares and toms at 127 = the best hit, not the very hard hard hit.