Why sample developers stop selling their older products?

[filter303]

There are tons of old but good samples from labels such as Zero-G, AMG, Best Service, Equipped Music (thinking mostly about the stuff from E-lab perioid) etc. Yet many of these companies decided to stop selling them?
What is the point in this? Are they thinking that the stuff is getting old or something?

I would really love to buy some of the sample cd's that were used in the early 90's electronic dance music but in some cases is nearly impossible. My friend had this 10-disc collection from e-lab that was very affordable, but unfortunately that is not available anymore. I emailed so many place but no one seems to have it anymore. The same thing goes with the Best Service's XXL, Mega etc series.
I could go on and on but you probably get my point already.

Back in the days lot's of hardware was used in making these samples and that can be heard in the quality.
There is something about these old samples that inspire me when I write music.

I feel so saddened by the fact that these great products are being forgotten these days.

I wish that sample developers would bring back their older products, there are still people who would like to buy them. Just do what Zero-G did with their Apple Loop collections. Just combine multiple products into one and get more sales. Great value for money for the customers too.

[core]

I bought the 10-disc elab compilation many a year ago. Sure it has that vibe, but to me it seems like a large amount of the content was simply recorded off vinyl or even 90's tunes with a E-Mu or Akai sampler

[Xleth]

I guess the demand is so low that it wouldn't pay off for them to have new CDs made (and the sleeves printed).

I also guess that they are lazy to convert the CDs to downloadable formats, which would eliminate the above reason.

[Mike Greene]

If the contracts originally specified "CD-Roms" and made no mention of downloads (who even dreamed back then that downloads for this would be possible?) then contracts would have to be amended. That can be a PIA as the original developers might want a bigger cut or some other demands. Since these old libraries aren't huge money makers anymore, it might just not be worth the trouble of having lawyers do this.

There's also an odd quirk about this business where cheaper products often require *more* tech support than expensive ones. "Acoustic Kits for Stylus RMX" costs only $39 (with the "kvr" electronic coupon,) but I get way more tech support email for that than I do for Realivox, which costs $295.

I think it's mostly because people who buy cheaper stuff simply are newer and have more questions. A guy who spends $295 probably knows Kontakt really well and won't have questions about installing Realivox, or how to load instruments. While a guy who spends $39 on a drum library for Stylus seems to be generally less tech savvy, and you'd be amazed some of the questions I get asked.

So maybe another reason some of the older stuff gets dropped is because it would have to be so cheap now, that the inevitable newbie tech support factor creeps in, which cuts into the profit. Not to mention complaints from people who won't think a 15 year old library stacks up to the new ones.

[SampleScience]

I bought the 10-disc elab compilation many a year ago. Sure it has that vibe, but to me it seems like a large amount of the content was simply recorded off vinyl or even 90's tunes with a E-Mu or Akai sampler

Indeed, many sound libraries of the time where made sampling vinyls & sound modules. Not very ethical... & completly illegal.

That being said, newer sound libs in the hip hop genre include obvious vinyl chops...

[Xleth]

If the contracts originally specified "CD-Roms" and made no mention of downloads

I am not a lawyer, but IMHO all that should be needed is an addendum to the agreement stating:

The term 'CD-Rom' now also means 'any downloadable format'.

One sentence. You should not even need a lawyer for that.

[Mike Greene]

If the contracts originally specified "CD-Roms" and made no mention of downloads

I am not a lawyer, but IMHO all that should be needed is an addendum to the agreement stating:

The term 'CD-Rom' now also means 'any downloadable format'.

One sentence. You should not even need a lawyer for that.

Yes, but you have to get the person to sign that addendum. Meaning they would agree to all the original terms of the contract, including a royalty rate that was originally based on the idea that the distributor had lots of hard costs, like pressing CD's, printing catalogs, making appearances at NAMM/Musikmesse, shipping and all these other expenses which no longer matter. Not to mention new-product promotion costs (these companies used to regularly run magazine ads,) which no longer applies with old stuff.

So my guess is that most of these guys would insist on a much higher royalty than what the original contract called for. I sure would.

They might also want to revisit other parts of the contract. Like add a clause to limit deep discounts. Sure, the distributor can make a few bucks by blowing out old libraries for peanuts. In bulk, there's money to be made. But I could see guys balking at their library being sold for $10, just as a matter of principle.

I'm just speculating, of course, but my point is that it could potentially be a whole can of worms for the distributor that isn't worth the trouble.

[Xleth]

So my guess is that most of these guys would insist on a much higher royalty than what the original contract called for. I sure would.

For ancient 90's stuff? You must be joking. The author should be glad anyone's still interested in his out-of-fashion sounds.

Normally, old stuff is sold with some pretty discount.

They might also want to revisit other parts of the contract.

Sure, they might. So? If they didn't want to sign a simple addendum, move on. Ignore them. But you can't say "Let's forget about ALL old titles, because someone MIGHT want to revisit the agreements."

[sjm]

They might also want to revisit other parts of the contract.

Sure, they might. So? If they didn't want to sign a simple addendum, move on. Ignore them. But you can't say "Let's forget about ALL old titles, because someone MIGHT want to revisit the agreements."

I think the point here is that if you have, say, 5 contributors to a sample CD, and you factor in the time it'll take to track everyone down (e-mails bounce, telephone numbers don't exist, people have since moved to different countries etc. etc.), get everyone to agree to a new contract wording, strip out the samples that you no longer have permission to distribute because X can't be reached, Y wants a better deal and Z is dead etc. etc. it's probably simply not worth the effort for the odd random sale every now and then - especially at the hefty discount you're expecting.

I mean, would you spend a few days doing this stuff for a coupla bucks split between X people?



In the case where a single person was behind all the samples, you don't have these problems of course and as long as you make the package downloadable it's all money in the bank for little effort.

[Shabdahbriah]

In addition to all of the above, I know of a number of "libraries" that are no longer available simply because coverting them to the (now) expected/in demand "24/48" (or 24/96) OR a 'newer' Kontact/UVI/Mach-5/REX (et al), or other format, would be too much hassle/inconvenient for the perceived return. Notwithstanding that many of them were written in a proprietary or 'licensed' format to begin with, like: "Impakt/Kompakt", etc.

Other 'older' libs have been licensed (in part, or exclusively) to other devs/distributors as well.

[2c]

[Perimeter Sound]

Not from the 90's (but the very early 2000's) after the M-Audio contract expired, we had our 3 Pro Sessions titles 'off the market' for a while simply because we figured everyone who wanted them had them by now. Eventually we put them back up for sale as downloads, and they still sell a bit to this day. Granted they are not exactly what the OP asked about, but it might be one reason old stuff isn't being sold anymore - the owner/creator just doesn't think anyone would want it these days.

Another possibility has to do with multiple contracts/buyouts etc., and much like banks/mortgages screwed up the housing paperwork in a bunch of cases, it may not be clear exactly who has the right to sell these products.

[ghettosynth]

I bought the 10-disc elab compilation many a year ago. Sure it has that vibe, but to me it seems like a large amount of the content was simply recorded off vinyl or even 90's tunes with a E-Mu or Akai sampler

I'm pretty sure this is the dominant reason. Zero-G had a wildly popular three volume set called the Datafile series full of uncleared samples.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... afile.html

[hollowsun]

In addition to all of the above, I know of a number of "libraries" that are no longer available simply because coverting them to the (now) expected/in demand "24/48" (or 24/96) OR a 'newer' Kontact/UVI/Mach-5/REX (et al), or other format, would be too much hassle/inconvenient for the perceived return. Notwithstanding that many of them were written in a proprietary or 'licensed' format to begin with, like: "Impakt/Kompakt", etc.

^^ What he said!

I gave up supporting the Akai format a while back because it was simply not worth it. They just didn't sell ... well, one or two here and there once in a blue moon. In the meantime, I was paying to host the files few people were buying, paying for storage, bandwidth, etc..

And then, as mentioned by Mike, increased tech support advising people how to convert from Akai to whatever obscure sampler they were using. Just not worth it - losing money in fact.

I did convert most of the highlights to Kontakt but that was a good chunk of work. Worth it in the end but supporting old formats and old, defunct libraries is simply not worth it and not profitable for the few people who just might be interested every now and then.

As for the legal issues, many of the old libraries were sold by distributors in those pre- and early internet days. I can only speak with authority about the old Akai S-series library but the original Akai doesn't exist anymore so their old libs can't be sold (and anyone converting those old things to downloads would have to be clinically insane IMO!). For other 3rd party Akai libraries, as mentioned, it would be all but impossible to renegotiate the contracts the distributors set up 30-odd years ago and it just wouldn't be worth it. As an example, ISTR there was a library done by an old chum of mine, Pascal Gabriel. Well, assuming Pascal can still be tracked down, he is just not going to be interested in arsing about with contracts for £2.50 for each of the ten copies some distributor might, if they're lucky, sell in a year.

But there is another reason why distributors and developers stop selling titles...

Because they choose to! It's their thing, their product - they can do what they want (or not) with it. Things move on.

Cheers,


Stephen

[Wildfunk]

There are several reasons:

- copyright issues
- out of stock
- dated sounds
- akai format
- audio format (ripping, cutting and renaming needed )
- no time to convert them to wav/nki/etc

I got many old sample cds but they are full of dated sounds.

And if you found a cool sample or vocals it's not cleared or royalty-free.

[penguinfromdeep]

But sometimes dated sounds become fashionable again Like now the vintage house thing etc.... I find myself looking for old akai samples again