KVR Audio

antithesist · Post by **antithesist** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:36 pm

They should at least offer a discount for owners of the same product, like a TDM upgrade. Though I guess other than the CV thing this would be more like a RE downgrade (ouch).

A few companies still make you pay per format, or at least one that I can think of, and Ohm Force has that as an option for people that only really need one. I thought of another that has an OS X price, a Windows price, a combined price and an upgrade from either to combined. They're only VST at present, but are long overdue for a promised free AU update for the Mac users.

Ya know, it's probably harder to think of any two companies that do things the same way with crossgrades, upgrades, updates, multiple formats and platforms, not to mention resale, copy protection, etc.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:17 pm

I haven't signed any NDA (yet), so here's my take on things:

It looks like Propellerhead isn't offering vouchers to the developers at this time. From my non-NDA state of no inside info, this suggests that the developers get a statement in their payment account, that says the number of sales for each RE plugin and the money that they have received, but that's it. No identifying info for a sale (i.e. first name/last name/email of the buyer) which would allow for the developer to set up their own voucher system. The Reason Extensions store is completely orthogonal to any store system a developer might have for VST/AU/RTAS/AAX plugins, and it doesn't look like there is any way to share info between the two systems.

This is a tough spot for any developer to be in:

- Charge the same amount of money for the RE plugin as for the VST/AU/RTAS, and you will anger the people who own your VST/AU/RTAS, and feel like they have to buy it twice. Plus, it looks like the Reason users have been complaining about the prices of the existing RE plugins, with the implied expectation (by some users, not Propellerheads or the plugin developers) that things would be closer to iOS app prices than existing plugins.

- Charge LESS money for the RE plugin, and your existing VST/AU/RTAS customers will be angry, even if they don't own Reason, as it seems like Reason users are being given preferential treatment.

- Charing MORE money for the RE plugin is just a bad idea on all counts, unless your VST was originally free, in which case I'm all for it.

Mind you, a developer would have to charge a considerable percentage higher than their VST/AU/RTAS prices in order to make the same money on a RE sale, due to the 30% app store fee that is taken by Propellerhead.

There have also been complaints that the current set of plugins are just ports of existing VST/AU/RTAS plugins, as opposed to original RE content. I would think that creating original plugins for Reason would be a good way of sidestepping some of the criticism, as the VST/AU/RTAS and RE plugins would be different enough to be considered different products. However, this could incur the wrath of existing VST/AU/RTAS users, if the developer offers features in the RE plugin that weren't in the original VST etc. plugins. Plus, apparently the beta SDK was only released 3 weeks before the launch of Reason 6.5, which isn't really enough time to generate original content. I'm honestly *stunned* at how quickly some of the ports went, which speaks well of the Propellerhead SDK (not to mention the coding kung fu of the developers currently in the Reason RE store).

No firm conclusions here, just my $2 (I've raised my rates).

Sean Costello

Flandersh · Post by **Flandersh** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:22 pm

@midnight wrote:
shalako wrote:also don't expect the RE version to sounds as good as the VST version.
bloody hell. really? really? really? really?

really?

really?

really?

f**king relaly?

Or what about if it sounds as good as the VST version, but unfortunately is in a DAW without the best sample rate converters...

Example:
Nonlinear distortions (white) and quantization noise (green) at 1 kHz tone when converting from 96 kz to 44.1 khz in
Reason 6: http://src.infinitewave.ca/images/Tone/Reason6.png
Studio One 2: http://src.infinitewave.ca/images/Tone/StudioOne205.png

Trakstar · Post by **Trakstar** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:51 pm

Flandersh wrote:
@midnight wrote:
shalako wrote:also don't expect the RE version to sounds as good as the VST version.
bloody hell. really? really? really? really?

really?

really?

really?

f**king relaly?
Or what about if it sounds as good as the VST version, but unfortunately is in a DAW without the best sample rate converters...

Example:
Nonlinear distortions (white) and quantization noise (green) at 1 kHz tone when converting from 96 kz to 44.1 khz in
Reason 6: http://src.infinitewave.ca/images/Tone/Reason6.png
Studio One 2: http://src.infinitewave.ca/images/Tone/StudioOne205.png

Thats quite a difference. I bought reason 6 upgrade 2 months ago just for the ssl mixer and was in good spirits when i heard about the rack extensions. I thought joy at the possibility of softube plugs within reason especially the trident EQ as well as the price they are on offer for. I am sort of pissed that my main audio computer is not internet connected so i cant get the rack extensions to my non internet computer without having to reset it all up downstairs or spend £20 on a usb modem for internet. It was a good idea with having all the different licenses stored on one dongle instead of having multiple forms of copy protection like you encounter with vst. I was considering moving from sonar x1 expanded to reason 6 altogether and sometimes it is hard which to choose to use which one to work with, both have their pros and cons. I have to say its looking like the prochannel because i get the vst versions as well as the pro modules. This has seriously disheartened me and i am seriously thinking of selling my reason package. Reason 3 original box set and license with upgrade box set to reason 6.0, and then the reason 6.5 download with the ignition key authorized for 6.5. The new synth and softube are in my account but i havent even been bothered to download them or license them on my ignition key because of all this garbage. I thought it would be a simple installer i could store on my usb stick. Kudos to the props because this way certainly stops the crackers because unless they find some way of cracking reason 6 itself, without the original software installers to decompile and reverse engineer the are up shit creak without a paddle. I really hope this does not take off with other companies because i like the simpleness of sonars serial number and thats it. In fact Apple did the same with Logic, something i bet they thought about for a long time before deciding it would be a good idea to implement. I have to say, considering whats going on saving up for that Mac and a copy of logic for $199 is staring to look mighty tempting. Anyhows, please let me know your thoughts because i could do with some proper feedback and whats the going rate for selling reason 6 these days. Thanks in advance

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:04 pm

Im laughing myself to tears reading about the plugin not sounding as good in RE format

shalako · Post by **shalako** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:34 pm

@mrdr I'm not saying it's not possible that the Re vearions would sound amazing, I'm just saying that based on past experience, I have found that when another dev team get involved with Softube the results haven't been as good as the stand alone Softube plugs. Personally (and I mean this as a matter of opinion...) I gave up on reason a while ago, the over sound quality compared with other software just seemed lacking... Note that I was a hardcore Reason fan for many years.

In saying that I still absolutely love Scream 4 distortion!!!!!! not that use it much these days since ReWire is not x64

eXode · Post by **eXode** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:18 pm

valhallasound wrote:There have also been complaints that the current set of plugins are just ports of existing VST/AU/RTAS plugins, as opposed to original RE content. I would think that creating original plugins for Reason would be a good way of sidestepping some of the criticism, as the VST/AU/RTAS and RE plugins would be different enough to be considered different products. However, this could incur the wrath of existing VST/AU/RTAS users, if the developer offers features in the RE plugin that weren't in the original VST etc. plugins. Plus, apparently the beta SDK was only released 3 weeks before the launch of Reason 6.5, which isn't really enough time to generate original content. I'm honestly *stunned* at how quickly some of the ports went, which speaks well of the Propellerhead SDK (not to mention the coding kung fu of the developers currently in the Reason RE store).

No firm conclusions here, just my $2 (I've raised my rates).

Sean Costello

I admit that I do wish to see some plugins ported from other formats but I'm hoping for this scenario, to see more unique stuff in Reason as it would kill the hole debate about crossgrades and differences between VST/RE versions of the same plugin.

I know that the ratio isn't even but Peff's BUFFRE and also the three devices from Synapse Audio are not ports of, or even based on parts of, existing plugins. Also I think that the Saturation Knob by Softube is new. And obviously, props own devices Pulsar, Polar, and Radical Piano.

The format is so new, it's really too early to tell where it will all end up.

antithesist · Post by **antithesist** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:12 pm

I think the Softube saturation knob thing was first available for Sonar, then for free in AAX format, and now RE.

I tried to get it and the other free RE without owning Reason. It wouldn't let me. I already had an account that I got to see if I could buy one of their dongles (ignition key/codemeter stick). That purchase is also only available for Reason licensees. I need that kind of dongle for my Duende plug-ins.

So, can anyone confirm that Reason Essentials comes with the dongle? Also, who has the best deal on it? I'm thinking I'd at least be able to get it for $85 sometime when JRR has 15% off. SSL charges $50 for their codemeter stick, making it a nice rationalization of only paying about $35 for Essentials.

Then, I'd probably just stick to the free RE's like I've done similarly with amplitube free and what ever their add-ons are called. (I got the two free amps and also transferred some stuff from amplitube Live and Duo. I did pay $15 for Live. I still don't know if what I transferred wasn't already there though.)

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:20 pm

What about the AU pricing?

deggy · Post by **deggy** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:49 am

the FXpansion DCAM envelope shaper plugin just got released in RE.

it doesn't offer the option for 4x oversampling. leads me to believe that some of this stuff just doesn't sound as good in RE. I bought the Envelope shaper. it doesn't sound as good as its native counterpart and works out to be more expensive (the entire DCAM compressor set is $100 canadian. the REs are prob going to be $30 each, if not more)...

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:28 am

shalako wrote: In saying that I still absolutely love Scream 4 distortion!!!!!! not that use it much these days since ReWire is not x64

You're not up-to-date then because Rewire is now x64 too.

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 am

deggy wrote:the FXpansion DCAM envelope shaper plugin just got released in RE.

it doesn't offer the option for 4x oversampling. leads me to believe that some of this stuff just doesn't sound as good in RE.

Apparently, there are some serious issues with CPU-efficiency of this whole RE thing (you should have read through that big thread started by ttoz some time ago...) so this might explain why they don't offer oversampling in their RE version as it would just kill your computer

deggy · Post by **deggy** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:01 am

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... tcount=408

i just found this. i guess some people are using oversampling in their RE plugs. maybe i was wrong?

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:21 am

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:21 am

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Softube: VST pricing vs. RE pricing