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How melodic can I get away with in EDM/IDM?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

highkoo
KVRAF
 
3080 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:05 pm

MeteoXavier wrote:
highkoo wrote:So "simple bassline" was all you needed to hear?
That was the signal that inspired you above all the noise of people telling you to listen?


No, my question was (if you remember the topic title, which you should by now) whether or not I could make EDM or IDM highly melodic.

Finally, after a full page of people laughing at typos and focusing on my amusia for some reason, someone actually answered the question and even gave a helpful tip to go with it. That's all I was asking for.

Oh ok, so you were calling out the first real answer that came through the din. Ok.

What makes you think I forgot your topic?
It is so ridiculous when boiled down, I couldnt possibly forget it.
You are looking for a formula to create art which you apparently are not at all familiar with or passionate about.
Do you even enjoy it? Have you listened to any of it...?

And please dont confuse me for someone laughing at typos or amusia.
I am staring right at your direct questions and trying to open them up.

Yeah, I took a jab at VGM, cuz this attitude couldve only been forged there.
There was some truth in my jab man.
MeteoXavier wrote:If I have an attitude, its because it shouldn't take 15 posts to get to a "Yeah, you can make EDM as melodic as you want" or "Not really, EDM tends to focus on pumping rhythms and harsh bass, etc" from people who obviously only read like 1/3rd of the original post. I don't think that's much to ask for.

Oh, well, welcome to the real world!
Where, when you ask ridiculous questions, you get ridiculous threads!
You are asking too much, in various ways.

Listen, the fact that an acceptable response to this thread would be as fundamental a thing as "Yeah, you can make EDM as melodic as you want", is crazy.
The fact that you would also give attitude to attempts at helpful posts that fall outside your criteria is further crazy.

Thats why I said 'too bad'. You arent even polite in your questioning. You are obviously alpha righteous badman.
MeteoXavier wrote:Thank you for your wall of arrogant bullshit and unprovoked dig at VGM. I'll move on to a post that's much more reasonable now.

Youre welcome.
Im usually good for some pretty arrogant and vitriolic text.
But imagine how you come off attacking people trying to help you! :-o

Anyway, hopefully it pissed you off enough to teach you some fukking manners.
I guess I shouldve just left out the paragraph where I gave you my thoughts on your question.
Next thread I will just jump in the circle jerk and give you 'Go gettem tiger!'
:roll:
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Jbravo
KVRian
 
1189 posts since 19 May, 2002, from Cambridge, UK

Postby Jbravo; Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:54 am

I would not be the least bit surprised if one day I see a post which says:

"I just bought some music software. I've decided to be a successful music producer. Do I use the white buttons or the black ones? In which order? Where can I find a site which has all the rules written out for me by genre? Which is better 125 bpm or 150? Where can I download some bpms? Which one is the most commercial right now?"

With so many tools on hand people think there's no art to making music and it doesn't require creativity, just an easy to read walkthrough
mkdr
KVRian
 
1334 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:29 am

EDM is all about drugs. That's how the pro's do it. Just look at how many EDM artists are from the Netherlands.. and they've pretty much legalized everything.
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3080 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:18 am

mkdr wrote:EDM is all about drugs.

Finally someone said it.

:P
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ksandvik
KVRist
 
363 posts since 25 Aug, 2005, from North California

Postby ksandvik; Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:50 am

Rule no 1 in music: There are no rules.
mjudge55
KVRist
 
67 posts since 8 Sep, 2005, from Seattle

Postby mjudge55; Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:16 pm

I actually think this is an interesting topic so I'll attempt to address it.

With modern popular music melodies (and harmonies) tend to be very simple in music theory terms, and in some styles virtually nonexistent. With some songs the melody is very important, but it's more about style and aesthetic than it is about music theory content.

If your first album got tagged ambient or new agey then I imagine the issue is that the melodies, harmonies and rhythms were too complex and/or too removed from what's popular right now. I'd also imagine the sounds used had the same problems.

From a music theory perspective, this is what I hear with a lot of popular music:

1. Diatonic harmonic structure (major/minor) with very few deviations except the most simple, tried and true formulas (forget jazz).
2. Melodies involving lots of repeated notes with short easy steps in between moves. Lots of repetition with very few basic, obvious variations.
3. The rhythm of the melody is also very simple, few syncopations except the most obvious.
4. Generally if an instrument is carrying a melody then it needs to be even simpler -- popular music is not about instrumental prowess.

I imagine lots of popular songs are counter examples, so take this with a grain of salt.

Here's how I'd go about getting there:

1. Approach song writing from a novice perspective; deemphisize your chops and musical knowledge.
2. Use extremely simple and familiar chord and song structures -- you're aiming for transparency from the listener's perspective.
3. Listen to as much of the music you want to emulate as possible with an ear toward the aesthetic content -- listen for how the melody and other musical content deliver the message of what type of person the artist/performer is.
4. Know the kinds of sounds that work in your genre and stick to them religiously.
5. Seriously, rip people's melodies off. Sample them into a audio/midi converter and use them with minor changes. Once recontextualized in your song, they may be totally unrecognizable.
6. If anything you do sounds like a genre that isn't currently popular, nix it. No jazz, no prog, no ambient, no new age, no classical, no folk.
7. This might sound totally crazy, but maybe a change in lifestyle would make you the kind of person who'd do this kind of music more naturally. Music comes from your experience as a person, so to make music like someone else, you have to be someone else.

Just some thoughts to further the conversation.

Regards,

Matt
Doctor kindly tell your wife that
I'm alive, flowers thrive
Realize, realize, realize
JumpingJackFlash
KVRian
 
1146 posts since 10 Oct, 2004

Postby JumpingJackFlash; Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:28 pm

Jbravo wrote:I would not be the least bit surprised if one day I see a post which says:

"I just bought some music software. I've decided to be a successful music producer. Do I use the white buttons or the black ones? In which order? Where can I find a site which has all the rules written out for me by genre? Which is better 125 bpm or 150? Where can I download some bpms? Which one is the most commercial right now?"

With so many tools on hand people think there's no art to making music and it doesn't require creativity, just an easy to read walkthrough


Excellent post! :D
Unfamiliar words can be looked up in my Glossary of musical terms.
Also check out my Introduction to Music Theory.
mkdr
KVRian
 
1334 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:58 am

mjudge55 wrote:I actually think this is an interesting topic so I'll attempt to address it.


*facepalm*

You are drawing lines between points that have nothing to do with why tracks are good and why not. Yes they tend to be simple, but that's not what makes a track good or not. Even overly complicated ones can be good. EDM usually aims for certain feelings or moods. Look for those.
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
mjudge55
KVRist
 
67 posts since 8 Sep, 2005, from Seattle

Postby mjudge55; Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:51 am

mkdr wrote:
mjudge55 wrote:I actually think this is an interesting topic so I'll attempt to address it.


*facepalm*

You are drawing lines between points that have nothing to do with why tracks are good and why not. Yes they tend to be simple, but that's not what makes a track good or not. Even overly complicated ones can be good. EDM usually aims for certain feelings or moods. Look for those.


I liked your point about drugs. I actually talked about "feelings or moods" when I mentioned aesthetics and conveying an image of the performer/artist. I didn't address how to make tracks "good" becuase it's totally subjective.
Doctor kindly tell your wife that
I'm alive, flowers thrive
Realize, realize, realize
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codec_spurt
KVRAF
 
3462 posts since 20 Sep, 2005

Postby codec_spurt; Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:55 pm

MeteoXavier wrote:I wasn't sure if this was the forum for this question, but it seems the most appropriate for now.



No. It is perfect. I meant to answer it before.

My ex-g/f. used to cry when trance tracks were being played at Australian house parties.

Sorry, have you ever been to an Australian house party?

She would weep. Jesus/deity what was the matter with her?

All it took was a cliched major/minor progression and she would be in bits.

But she was off her head on Ecstasy.

Maybe this says it better:

=============
Every time we say goodbye
I die a little
Every time we say goodbye
I wonder why a little
Why the Godss above me
Who must be in the know
Think so little to me
They allow you to go

When you're near
there's such an air
of Spring about it
I can hear a lark somewhere
begin to sing about it
Theres no love song finer
But how strange the change
From major to minor
Every time we say goodbye

When you're near
Theres such an air
of Spring about it
I can hear a lark somewhere
Begin to sing about it
Theres no love song finer
But how strange the change
From major to minor
Every time you say

Theres no love song finer
But how strange
The change from major to minor
Every time we say goodbye
===================

I tried to explain to her that it was just her unsophisticated sense of melody and harmony. But she sobbed more uncontrollably in my arms when I did.

Er, we are no longer going out together. But she is a very successful porn queen. I would give the links, but, eh, pm's only ;-).

I think I am more damaged but, at least I don't cry at trance house chord progressions for f*** s***..

All the best.



:shock:

Er, I just read that post, and I might have come across as a bit flippant.
Mods, hit me up, I have links! Oh yes I do!

There are some things in life you just don't joke about!
You'll be pleased to know, I'm knocking it all on the head.
highkoo
KVRAF
 
3080 posts since 25 Jun, 2004

Postby highkoo; Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:19 am

codec_spurt wrote:I might have come across as a bit flippant.

I nearly popped my stitches at that. :lol:
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