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Postby deleted; Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:45 pm

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KVRAF
 
3648 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Robin from www.rs-met.com; Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:40 pm

@Juanjo
-Event Processing:
an earlier version of Liberty had an explicit representation of events, with event I/O modules, dedicated event connections etc. but i ditched that explictit representation in favor for representing events as signals, too. that seemed to be more convenient and efficient at this point. for example, there's a note-trigger module that fires a spike (unit impulse) on each note-on. i'm planning to provide modules that respond to such spikes - for example an envelope generator may have a "Reset" input pin and reset its state whenever it sees a nonzero value on this reset-input. counters, periodic spike generators, fire-on-so-or-so-many-spikes, switch-input-on-spike, etc. modules are to come. so - although there's no explicit notion of events as in MIDI, there's a kind of signal-based notion of events - perhaps pretty much like in analog sequencers. for eample, there could be a module where you insert notes like in a DAW matrix editor and on each note-on it fires a spike on one output pin, sets a second output-pin to a constant value representing the note frequency, a third to a value representing the velocity, etc. damn - you could perhaps even change the note frequency during the note. ...but all that stuff would obviously have to work only monophonically. or maybe there could be some voice-interaction modules, too? dunno as of now. postponed to later, but i keep it in the back of my head (but if you have ideas, feel free to post them already - we may check back here later). my current priority is to get the parameter stuff working.

-Meta parameter mappings will be part of each patch

-AciDevil: oh well, yeah there was something. i published the audio-processing part of it as open source (Open303 on sourceforge) and hoped for other programmers to grab and maybe improve it. then i wanted to retrofit the improved code back into the acidevil. but so far, noone has picked it up. on the other hand, i'm actually already pretty happy with the audio-engine as is - so yeah - when Liberty is done (which is still a long way to go), i may get back on this one.


@michi_mak
you mean like the tree-nodes should have some kind of graphical represenation of the modules instead of a textual one? ...like a filter node shows a rectangle with some kind of frequency-response plot or something?




that reminds me: one thing that i'm still a bit unhappy with, is the way in which new modules are inserted. that [right-click -> popup-browser opens -> select] is a bit tedious. i mean, it's OK to have, but not as the one and only way. perhaps it would be nicer to have a kind of module-browser that is always open and has drag-and-drop functionality. but where should it go - maybe straight below the patch-treeview to split the bottom section in the same way? ...but i'm afraid that would imply a false sense of vertical information flow in the left section. if it is a similar treeview (which it currently is), it could somehow look like a downward continuation of the patch-tree - which could be very misleading. perhaps it could be placed on the right hand side instead? but nah ...drag and drop from right to left feels unnatural. hmmm...ideas are welcome
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KVRian
 
818 posts since 5 Jan, 2006, from Premià

Postby Juanjo; Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:02 am

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote:@Juanjo
-Event Processing:
...
postponed to later, but i keep it in the back of my head (but if you have ideas, feel free to post them already - we may check back here later)


The event stuff as signals ("spikes", etc) as opposed to explicit midi actually sounds great and opens up further possibilities... within Liberty. I'd suggest then a couple simple midi-to-event-signals and event-signals-to-midi modules, together with midi input and output, for driving external synths and/or processing incoming midi data... in this way Liberty could become a very powerful midi generator/processor when needed, apart from its audio capabilities:

1) Midi goes in
2) Midi gets translated into "signals"
3) Weird stuff is done to the signals
4) Signals are converted back to midi
5) Midi goes out

Just a thought anyway, and perhaps too soon to discuss this kind of stuff.


-AciDevil: oh well, yeah there was something. i published the audio-processing part of it as open source (Open303 on sourceforge) and hoped for other programmers to grab and maybe improve it. then i wanted to retrofit the improved code back into the acidevil. but so far, noone has picked it up. on the other hand, i'm actually already pretty happy with the audio-engine as is - so yeah - when Liberty is done (which is still a long way to go), i may get back on this one.


Please do, I loved the sound but more than that the incredibly simple and self-explanatory sequencer.


that reminds me: one thing that i'm still a bit unhappy with, is the way in which new modules are inserted. that [right-click -> popup-browser opens -> select] is a bit tedious. i mean, it's OK to have, but not as the one and only way. perhaps it would be nicer to have a kind of module-browser that is always open and has drag-and-drop functionality. but where should it go - maybe straight below the patch-treeview to split the bottom section in the same way? ...but i'm afraid that would imply a false sense of vertical information flow in the left section. if it is a similar treeview (which it currently is), it could somehow look like a downward continuation of the patch-tree - which could be very misleading. perhaps it could be placed on the right hand side instead? but nah ...drag and drop from right to left feels unnatural. hmmm...ideas are welcome


What about making the current tree view of the project a "tabbed area" that could display either the actual tree view of the project or the list of available modules with drag and drop functionality, depending on the tab selected... I mean, 99% of the time you won't need both the tree view and the list of modules visible at once i.e. you either are working at modular level within a container/module, so you'd need the list of modules available, or you are working at project level checking layouts/relationships/etc, so you'd need the tree view. Again, just a thought.
The mind boggles.
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Postby deleted; Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:09 am

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KVRist
 
295 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Postby Lying Low; Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:12 pm

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote:btw.: as for the Meta-Parameter thing - i'm also considering an interesting alternative: a functionality that stores values of all continuous parameters in a snapshot, then having an XY-pad on some global performance GUI-page, assigning a snapshot to each of the 4 corners and interpolating between the parameter-values in the snapshots according to the position in the XY-pad. ...aka preset/snapshot morphing. but it raises the question what to do with discontinuous parameters - like oscillator-waveform, number-of-breakpoints in an MSEG, etc. the easiest solution would be to simply not let such things be part of the snapshot (i.e. they are the same for all snapshots)

i'm just thinking aloud here in the hope for comments, suggestions and inspiration. so feel free to rip everything i said apart. ...meanwhile, i'll write some modules (currently sitting over a bandlimited-impulse-train (aka "buzz", in CSound terms))


How about a 2nd mode where you can crossfade between sectors to fade patchings with discontinuous parameters smoothly? I picture it like a crosshair (the 4 quadrants) with a circle around the center where you can drag the edge of the circle to make it bigger or smaller which sets up the crossfades time length.


I'm really excited about this vst plugin and I hope to see more pre-alpha or an alpha soon.
8)

[edit] I had another thought just now.. perhaps you could set up the circle idea job for a normal morphing mode to give a nice curve to the parameter morphing. Also it would be good to send the X and Y as vst parameters to the host.
A guy walks into a laundry run by cats. "Excuse me", he said to the cat in charge, "Can you get milk stains out?" "Sure," replied the cat. "We'll have that stain licked in a minute!"
KVRAF
 
3648 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Robin from www.rs-met.com; Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:02 pm

Lying Low wrote:How about a 2nd mode where you can crossfade between sectors to fade patchings with discontinuous parameters smoothly? I picture it like a crosshair (the 4 quadrants) with a circle around the center where you can drag the edge of the circle to make it bigger or smaller which sets up the crossfades time length.

what time length? what i have in mind is that the position of the handle in the XY-pad defines the morph between the 4 presets at the corners - here and now - there's not time involved. of course, the idea is ultimately to morph between presets in a time varying manner - but the time modulation comes about by the user dragging around the handle. and there shall be MIDI controllers for X and Y.

for the discontinuous parameters, the idea occurred to me that some kind of crossfading between 4 outputs of 4 instances of the module could be used - for an oscillator waveform (or generally, a sample), this would indeed be just that: crossfading. however, this approach will require me to always run 4 instances (except for the corner cases, if i handle them separately) of the module in question instead of just one - which might be prohibitive from a CPU load point of view.

i think the best approach would be to somehow turn discontinuous parameters into continuous ones whereever possible - for example, an oscillator waveform can be adjusted smoothly between saw and square instead of just picking one or the other. a filter type could be morphed from lowpass through bandpass to highpass instead of just picking the mode
(i need to work out some math for that). things like that. but this will certainly not always be possible. mmmhhh

ahh, and thanks for your interest. development is currently a bit slow because i shifted my attention to some updates for echolab (mainly applying the new GUI framework that is seen in straightliner, easyq, etc. - with the colorscheme stuff, etc.) ...this turned out to be somewhat more lengthy than i hoped - as usual
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KVRist
 
295 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Postby Lying Low; Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:10 pm

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote:
Lying Low wrote:How about a 2nd mode where you can crossfade between sectors to fade patchings with discontinuous parameters smoothly? I picture it like a crosshair (the 4 quadrants) with a circle around the center where you can drag the edge of the circle to make it bigger or smaller which sets up the crossfades time length.

what time length?


My idea was probably overly complicated. I meant that how close to the X that the crossfade between the 4 instances is initiated could be changed. Probably not very useful under normal circumstances but I tend to think of these things in terms of how it could work best in an automation scenario (like having an XY automation loop going but you can use the crossfade time control to add extra variation).
A guy walks into a laundry run by cats. "Excuse me", he said to the cat in charge, "Can you get milk stains out?" "Sure," replied the cat. "We'll have that stain licked in a minute!"
KVRAF
 
3648 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Robin from www.rs-met.com; Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:55 am

Lying Low wrote: I meant that how close to the X that the crossfade between the 4 instances is initiated could be changed.

sorry, but i don't understand that. are you talking about smoothing out the changes for the X- and Y-values over time?
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KVRian
 
809 posts since 1 Mar, 2003, from Duston, NN5

Postby kingtubby; Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:55 am

Any news on this/liberty?
everybody entertains everybody else
User avatar
DuX
KVRAF
 
3213 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld
 

Postby DuX; Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:53 am

This is great stuff, Robin! How did I manage to miss it? I hope the development of Liberty is still alive and well.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
KVRAF
 
3648 posts since 8 Mar, 2004, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Robin from www.rs-met.com; Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:59 am

DuX wrote:This is great stuff, Robin! How did I manage to miss it? I hope the development of Liberty is still alive and well.


well, currently it's kind of pigeonholed but i really want to pick it up someday again.
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