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neueliteratur · Post by **neueliteratur** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:57 am

According to this guitar handbok that I have, G11 is G7 with the fourth and the third at the same time.

But when I look at the tab diagram thing, there is no 4th/11th.

Is this normal?

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:42 am

From high to low, the second diagram ("G11") shows the notes d-a-f-c-g. What relationship is c to g? (Note that the 3rd is missing.)

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:44 am

Err, the sixth diagram -- the third of the sixth, the last of the "G11." All three on the "G11" show the same notes, just in different inversions.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:59 am

that isn't what you have there. nowhere in the tablature is the third of the chord indicated. For "G11' you have G F A C, G C F A, and D G C F A. the listing of 'B' there is a mistake. I think you can find a better handbook than that.

the presence of the P11th or 4th and the major third in a seventh chord is not very useful in pop, or jazz and it really is not seen or indicated.

there is usage of an 11th in addition to the minor third to make distinct from 'sus 4' but the minor ninth or second clash of it in a major chord is not very desirable; conventionally the 4 'resolves' to 3 and we won't receive the dissonance of both at the same time too happily in these styles.

you might see a suspended B resolve to A in an 'F/G bass' but per se it isn't happening.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:14 am

I quite like that minor second in the voicing G F B C and use it myself. I agree that is not common. That chiming chord in Walking on the Moon is D11 with no ma 3rd - and that is more common.

Often you see something like Gmi7/C which is a C 7th 9/11 if you want to look at it that way, again no 3rd.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:29 am

I reckon thinking of it as F/G bass, or Dm7/G bass is more helpful than trying to justify that particular tertial extension. This is jazz type of harmony and what's happening is a subdominant harmony with the bass as dominant. here the use of the term 'suspension' reveals some context for such an occurrence in 'legit' practice (voice-leading)...

I like the sonority you listed plenty, but... To be precise, I wouldn't call that B next to the C anything 'G11', for me that sound is closer to being a sharp 4 on an F triad with G in the bass, not that naming is that necessary...

This is getting into subtleties that that handbook isn't about. as a primer that is a mistake right there.

neueliteratur · Post by **neueliteratur** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm

Ah, I meant to say "But when I look at the tab diagram thing, there is no third"...

But yeah, thanks for your comments.

Guitar chord problem (Gsus4 and G11)