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M-Audio Venom Analog Modeling Synthesizer

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRAF
 
4156 posts since 14 Nov, 2008, from UK

Postby breakmixer; Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:10 am

mkdr wrote:http://youtu.be/XGN-JXVELd8


Download the Beta/Demo installer from here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/880206/MKDR_Ve ... b_demo.exe


Awesome - :party:

As this is Beta/Demo, what are the restrictions in functionality, or is it just a timeout?
KVRAF
 
18343 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from England

Postby Kriminal; Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:11 am

How much will the editor cost?
KVRian
 
1304 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:13 am

Kriminal wrote:How much will the editor cost?


10€

The demo is limited to 9 minutes.. i think. Other than that it's fully functional.
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
KVRAF
 
18343 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from England

Postby Kriminal; Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:17 am

mkdr wrote:
Kriminal wrote:How much will the editor cost?


10€

The demo is limited to 9 minutes.. i think. Other than that it's fully functional.


Thats cool, i'll def grab that once u have the synth.
KVRAF
 
4156 posts since 14 Nov, 2008, from UK

Postby breakmixer; Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:31 pm

Just to confirm in 32 bit install cubase 5/w7, this works 100%, tried the demo 5 times...

If on a similar set-up, choose venom synth in/out on the VST.

In cubase settings I had to a little messing about, but this configuration worked.

Direct Music Venom Synth In Visible X Active X
Windows Midi Venom Synth In Visible X Inactive

The only thing I wondered about was how to load free/commercial banks, without having to rely on the Vyzex editor?

Also how can you save Free/Commercial Banks to the hardware itself?

Apart from that - I was altering patches, renaming and as soon as clicked return that patch was named on the hardware, then just saved it to the venom itself.

So all in all good work, just a bit concerned about patch management, saving and loading, 3rd party whole banks and single presets etc...

Many thanks!
KVRer
 
7 posts since 25 Jan, 2013

Postby Bifop; Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:15 pm

Kudos for doing this MKDR.

I tried it and it works quite well, especially for an early beta !
However, I haven"t been able to upload the venom's user patches to the Bank manager.

I use another complimentary controller keyboard all mapped to the Venom's functions via Control Change and Sysex messages.
I noticed the software doesn't reflect changes sent like it does (partially) in the vyzex venom.
If you could manage to mirror incoming controls in the GUI; that would be fantastic !

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts.
KVRian
 
1304 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:40 pm

breakmixer wrote:Just to confirm in 32 bit install cubase 5/w7, this works 100%, tried the demo 5 times...

If on a similar set-up, choose venom synth in/out on the VST.

In cubase settings I had to a little messing about, but this configuration worked.

Direct Music Venom Synth In Visible X Active X
Windows Midi Venom Synth In Visible X Inactive

The only thing I wondered about was how to load free/commercial banks, without having to rely on the Vyzex editor?

Also how can you save Free/Commercial Banks to the hardware itself?

Apart from that - I was altering patches, renaming and as soon as clicked return that patch was named on the hardware, then just saved it to the venom itself.

So all in all good work, just a bit concerned about patch management, saving and loading, 3rd party whole banks and single presets etc...

Many thanks!


I'm working on the patch management. I still couldn't decode some received patches correctly. It seems the hw is sending bytes in a wrong order. It's clearly somekind of hw problem as receiving single patches from the "edit buffer" of the synth works like it's supposed to. I'm sure i can fix the problem in some way. When your ports are configured correctly you can turn the patch selection knob and the editor fetches that patch from the synth.

I haven't worked on the other direction yet, getting banks of patches to the synth. I will look into it ofcourse. I have no idea what the fileformat of Vyzex is, but the maker of the patch bank could perhaps consider releasing the patches in universally accepted and used Sysex format. VenomEd uses the most user friendly method of plain Sysex patches in human readable form. That means they are in normal text files. You can even copy the contents (with notepad) to other programs like Midiox.. Or even here, on the forum for others to try :) All in all the format of all -Ed editors is the most compatible i could think of. This way the users data is more safe, and not relient on the editor. All the patches also get automatically saved to a format that can be just sent to the synth regardless of the program. They arrive on the synth into the "edit buffer", from where you can then save etc.
I'm thriving to go by the standards, but I can't change other programs =)


Btw. Any ideas on Multi's and how to save and handle those?
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
KVRAF
 
4156 posts since 14 Nov, 2008, from UK

Postby breakmixer; Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:07 pm

mkdr wrote:Btw. Any ideas on Multi's and how to save and handle those?


No lol, I'm not too worried about the multi's myself! It's also above me.

So I have another play(over ten times now) and it holds the 'venom synth in/out' settings rock solidly, the Vyzex editor used to fail nearly every or every other time, so this is really good.

So far I've had stuck notes once and a non responsive vst at the same time, this was when changing the '3rd osc' rapidly, this then disconnected the vst from the hardware totally - but I'm not sure if the demo had just timed out, could of been that, anyway I must of fired it up ten times and cannot find any definite fault - If you change any 'performance controls' on the hardware the VST does not do any parameter changes unless you hit 'request' to update(* Except Resonance, that worked weirdly).

So all in all, very very happy and will purchase the full version as soon as it's ready.

Maybe you need to start a dedicated thread on this?

:D

PS I'm using the venom midi in/outs for my MophoEd and that is rock solid too.
KVRer
 
7 posts since 25 Jan, 2013

Postby Bifop; Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:27 pm

breakmixer wrote:
If you change any 'performance controls' on the hardware the VST does not do any parameter changes unless you hit 'request' to update(* Except Resonance, that worked weirdly).



Ah ok, that would explain why I didn't got the GUI reflecting the changes done in the Venom with the Remote 25. I'll try to refresh.
Maybe an "auto refresh" feature would help. ;-)

mkdr wrote:Btw. Any ideas on Multi's and how to save and handle those?


What part of the procedure are you missing ? Looking in the docs, it requires a handshake procedure. Did you spied Vyzex's messages regarding multis (with a virtual midi driver and an hex editor for instance) ?
Sorry if I state the obvious or If I misunderstood your question.
KVRian
 
1304 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:35 pm

breakmixer wrote:
mkdr wrote:Btw. Any ideas on Multi's and how to save and handle those?


No lol, I'm not too worried about the multi's myself! It's also above me.

Heh Ok. No problem :)

breakmixer wrote:So I have another play(over ten times now) and it holds the 'venom synth in/out' settings rock solidly, the Vyzex editor used to fail nearly every or every other time, so this is really good.

So far I've had stuck notes once and a non responsive vst at the same time, this was when changing the '3rd osc' rapidly, this then disconnected the vst from the hardware totally - but I'm not sure if the demo had just timed out, could of been that, anyway I must of fired it up ten times and cannot find any definite fault - If you change any 'performance controls' on the hardware the VST does not do any parameter changes unless you hit 'request' to update(* Except Resonance, that worked weirdly).

Have a look out for that "rapid changing of the 3rd osc" (sounds like a sci-fi movie) and if it does the disconnecting thing again come here yellin'!

The resonance works because it's the one i used to test the system on. All the same elements are in every control, but i haven't mapped them yet. In the next update perhaps..

breakmixer wrote:So all in all, very very happy and will purchase the full version as soon as it's ready.

Maybe you need to start a dedicated thread on this?

:D

Glad to hear you like it. And yes a dedicated thread might be a good idea. I totally forgot to do that :D

breakmixer wrote:PS I'm using the venom midi in/outs for my MophoEd and that is rock solid too.

As to be expected from quality products ;)
I'm using those ports for my Trinity btw.. which happens to be getting an editor soon too.


Oh and I'm planning to use VenomEd myself without a dedicated midi-input from the synth because i wan't to use the keys as my master keys in Cubase. Just to let people know that it's possible. Only an uplink is needed for proper operation. Haven't tested it with those Multi's yet though.. fingers crossed.
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
KVRAF
 
4156 posts since 14 Nov, 2008, from UK

Postby breakmixer; Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Bifop wrote:Ah ok, that would explain why I didn't got the GUI reflecting the changes done in the Venom with the Remote 25. I'll try to refresh.
Maybe an "auto refresh" feature would help. ;-)


I use Remote Zero Mk II(i.e. Automap) with his other editor for Mopho(Mopho'ed) and that works fine, have you wrapped the plugin with automap?

Using Remote 25 the parameters should update in realtime, not by 'request'ing, I think that is only for the onboard 'performance controls' of the Venom.

I will try this tomorrow and report back, you should be able to assign(learn) the Remote 25 to the Venom'ed no problem.
KVRAF
 
4156 posts since 14 Nov, 2008, from UK

Postby breakmixer; Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:45 pm

mkdr wrote:Oh and I'm planning to use VenomEd myself without a dedicated midi-input from the synth because i wan't to use the keys as my master keys in Cubase. Just to let people know that it's possible. Only an uplink is needed for proper operation. Haven't tested it with those Multi's yet though.. fingers crossed.


? I'm using Venom as my main controller already, i.e. to play all my VSTs/Hardware within my daw(Cubase 5) :?

You just have to turn local 'off' everytime you turn the bloody thing on lol.
KVRian
 
1304 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:40 pm

Bifop wrote:What part of the procedure are you missing ? Looking in the docs, it requires a handshake procedure. Did you spied Vyzex's messages regarding multis (with a virtual midi driver and an hex editor for instance) ?
Sorry if I state the obvious or If I misunderstood your question.


I've tried to stay clear of Vyzex after i initially looked up what it was doing with Midiox.. I've done everything by the documentation since. And that's actually not what i ment.

The thing is.. as the synth saves all it's Multis as "references" to patches in the synths memory, there's no sensible way to send Multis to be used standalone. I'm thinking of doing it in series of fours on the patch banks. So for example Multi 1 has patches 1,2,3 and 4. Multi 2 = 5,6,7,8. Multi 3 = 9,10,11,12. And so on. This way the patch handling wouldn't be an issue for the user. Better to have 64 Multis that work flawlessly than 100 that you can easily mess up. Right?

Well that's my view on it. Any comments?


And a bit of OT:
Why oh why don't any synth manufacturer do it like Clavia did?! Nord Leads have Multis that include all the patch data inside them. No stupid referencing and things to mess up. They even have cheap external memory for the patches. PCMCIA Ram cards. I bought a 1 Megabyte card myself for 10€(it really only needs 64kb). Holds up 800 patches! And this is from frekn 1995!
Oh we at Moog have 16 patch slots for you :roll:
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
KVRer
 
7 posts since 25 Jan, 2013

Postby Bifop; Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:18 pm

breakmixer wrote:
I use Remote Zero Mk II(i.e. Automap) with his other editor for Mopho(Mopho'ed) and that works fine, have you wrapped the plugin with automap?

Using Remote 25 the parameters should update in realtime, not by 'request'ing, I think that is only for the onboard 'performance controls' of the Venom.

I will try this tomorrow and report back, you should be able to assign(learn) the Remote 25 to the Venom'ed no problem.


I use the first remote incarnation (so no automap).
I programmed it using the CC table and sysex from the docs and by spying the strings Vyzex is sending.
I got the remote to fully control the Venom STAND AlONE (remote -> venom midi in. global set on Keys) which was my main goal. Awesome to have full knob control on Oscillator waveforms, LFO's, FX etc... !

When I control the plugin (through a Nuendo miditrack) I don't get knobs movements, but the sound is edited on the Venom. I'll probably get a remote zero MKII with automap for Nuendo operation. I once tried one and it's so much easier for Host use !
KVRer
 
7 posts since 25 Jan, 2013

Postby Bifop; Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:32 pm

mkdr wrote:
I've tried to stay clear of Vyzex after i initially looked up what it was doing with Midiox.. I've done everything by the documentation since. And that's actually not what i ment.


Do you mean that Vyzex sends some "garbage" in the sysex strings ?

mkdr wrote:The thing is.. as the synth saves all it's Multis as "references" to patches in the synths memory, there's no sensible way to send Multis to be used standalone. I'm thinking of doing it in series of fours on the patch banks. So for example Multi 1 has patches 1,2,3 and 4. Multi 2 = 5,6,7,8. Multi 3 = 9,10,11,12. And so on. This way the patch handling wouldn't be an issue for the user. Better to have 64 Multis that work flawlessly than 100 that you can easily mess up. Right?

Well that's my view on it. Any comments?


Yeah things can really get messy with the patches organisation since they are not stored in the multi ! YOur method would mean we'd have a succesion of let's say, drum, bass, arpeggio and pad in the memomy banks, right ?

mkdr wrote:Why oh why don't any synth manufacturer do it like Clavia did?! Nord Leads have Multis that include all the patch data inside them. No stupid referencing and things to mess up.


+ 1000
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