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by Xenobt; Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:08 am
Would still like to hear more from the op about PT10 tho...
by C-note; Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:10 am
strangedogs wrote:always thought it was over rated but since I got my Eleven Rack & PT 10.3.3 I'm in Pig Heaven.
I'm considering an Eleven Rack also but what does Pro Tools give you that all the other DAWs don't? I mean it records audio, is an ok midi composer (certainly not the best) and has ok mix down/mastering tools.
by Xenobt; Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:40 am
I know some other platforms have slight edges over PT in terms of workflow, (to some), but if you want to work in video post, REAL sound design (not synth patch making!) , or on major label projects, Pro Tools is, and always will be, the choice of professionals.
by TheoM; Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:24 pm
And it has low performance.
and it has no offline bounce of any kind.
It's the most unintuitive, heavy to use DAW in my opinion.
I would only ever have it if i was still working professionally and a client demanded it. For my own compositions i could never see a single benefit.
by Xenobt; Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:06 pm
TheoM wrote:yet it has a bug that every single VI is 128 samples out of time. That would do my head in.
It has delay compensation as an user option, and I've had no problems with my VIs. Hardware integration is another story!
TheoM wrote:And it has low performance.
Maybe the native versions, but that's all host dependent. The beefier your computer, the better your results get. I just did a session in PT8 that had 98 tracks with eq and compression on almost every channel and my Accel 2 rig didn't even break a sweat.
TheoM wrote: it has no offline bounce of any kind.
While true, I value hearing what effects and synths are doing as it bounces. Things with randomized filters, or flangers, phasers and chorus units make each pass slightly different, and I NEED to hear what it's doing, and not find out after export. If I'm checking the mix all the way thru, I haven't saved any time anyway.
TheoM wrote:It's the most unintuitive, heavy to use DAW in my opinion.
It's a mixer with recorder model. What's so hard to get about that? I learned it on my own in a week. Live or Reaper is simpler? Please!
TheoM wrote:I would only ever have it if i was still working professionally and a client demanded it. For my own compositions i could never see a single benefit.
Hey, whatever works for you, Theo! However, the key word here is professionally. I have tracks that come from other studios, and go out to other studios, and not having to recreate mixes from a stack of wav files saves my clients money, and keeps the session moving along.
I can do video post production, compose, do sound design, and record 32 tracks of live players at once, then edit, mix and master it all in up to 7.1 on the same platform.
Name one other DAW that does all these things as well!
by TheoM; Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:32 pm
But the sample accurate problem of synth plugins is a real issue, i think you are unaware of it from what you have written and need to do some research on it so please do. I can guarantee you it's a problem.
VI yes virtual instrument playback is out by a certain amount, it is not sample accurate in PT 10. As i said, i read heaps on it, but you'll need to search for links if you really care as i can't remember off hand, start at gearslutz though.
re offline bounce, that would have done my head in when i did a halloween project for someone that was an hour long. Every little change, a one hour bounce. this was in logic before it had offline bounce itself. I swore i would never go through that again.
On my laptop PT 10 performs substandard.. kind of on par with studio one.. it's the lowest performer out of Cubase, Logic and Live IMO.
Anyway, of course, when i had my big studio, i had a mix cube system, so that was 12 years ago, as clients demanded it. Even if my health gets better one day and i ever even start a (tiny) studio again, i'd get a Hd native at least. I know there is client demand for it.. was only speaking about using it personally.. i find it clunky.
by Xenobt; Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:08 pm
By that I mean, I get that things don't line up dead on the bar marker, but it IS a consistent amount. I can layer drums from various VIs with no flamming, and I still edit in grid mode, it's just the attack transient is just to the right of the marker. Actually, I think my edits sound better a few ms ahead of the beat!
As a virtual instrument itself, the click is out by the same amount as the VIs, so it's all late together, if that makes sense. If I track vocals or instruments to my VIs or the click, RELATIVELY they play back accurately in time with everything else, just not dead on the bar marker.
I still put my midi dead on the grid when I compose, but if the VI playback AND the recorded audio track are tight enough not to phase once I go to "tape", I don't care if they show up a little off the grid.
But that being said, I don't do techno or pop with lots of stutter edit fx or heavy beat warping either, so my criteria may not be everyone's!
And I'm no AVID zombie, trust me! Out of the box, there's lots of things handled better in other programs like time and pitch stretching, midi transforms and loop handling. But you can buy plug ins that do all that even better in PT, you just have to pay, and pay, and pay!
by vivo; Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 am
On my 2008 mac pro 8-core 2.8 ghz 10 gb ram with SSD and 10.8.2 Mountain Lion, I could only load 4 rtas instruments/synths and then cpu errors started to occur.
What ? 4 instruments and then : cpu error? Never had that before in Logic or Studio One on this mac. Fiddled with delay settings. Nothing helped.
So I sold it after 3 weeks. I could not compose music with it. I was using an RME FireFace 400 with PT 10.
For the money of selling PT10 , I bought Cubase 7 in January and already created like 20 tracks with it since beginning of 2013.
In C7 i am using in some songs 11 or more vst-i plugins and also vst FX plugins.
No biggie in C7 the cpu load is max 40-50% in most of my projects & the way I work.
I really did try to like PT10 but unworkable for me. Maybe if you use audio ONLY then it would be ok. Or PT HD but that's too pricey for me.
Not even using my Logic9 or Studio One lately.
If I could have loaded like 10 rtas plugins in PT10 and used it for composing I would not have sold it.
by bmanic; Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:14 am
Xenobt wrote:It's the industry standard and is so stable, I can count on one hand freezes or crashes over the last 15 years, C-note. That's its main strength.
I've worked with various PT systems since version 5 or so.. one of the main issues was always stability. I've had it crash on me more than I ever want to remember. Even the top of the line PT HD with 100 000$ or more worth of accessories and DSP cards. What made the crashes even worse was that you were forced to do real time renders.. now try finishing a 180 minute opera/classical theater thing on a tight deadline and have it crash on you.
If there is one thing PT is notorious for, it's for crashing at inconvenient moments.
There are still things that are great in Pro Tools but it's definitely not the industry standard for any other reason than good timing and relatively affordable at it's launch, compared to all other alternatives.
by Liero; Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:20 am
Xenobt wrote:Pro Tools is, and always will be, the choice of professionals.
You say you're not an AVID fanboy. Sorry, but only a non-professional zombie would say something like that. You never know what software is behind the next corner.
The whole issue is laughable to me. For me PT has always been the most unreliable DAW I have ever used. It's always been years behind on some "industry standard" features it likes to boast about as well (PDC, now native 64-bit).
The one thing PT did/does well is marketing: They managed to brainwash enough people into thinking that other DAW's don't sound as good and that you need PT to be "professional", which is complete BS. PT was at one point the only game in town, but that was over a decade ago, it's been a steady downhill from there. I'm glad that at least in europe the PT disease is slowly being cured as people realize they've been scammed.
My subjective opinion. Used to own PT7 system in the old days when I believed the lie that you needed PT to do good material. Used it for a year and then realized that just about every other major DAW was superior in perhaps all areas except pure audio editing.