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High quality audio morphing effect plugin, why it doesn't exist yet?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:34 am

...Or if it does, name it! Cause in my quest for finding a solid high quality morphing effect plugin to seamlessly & smoothly morph between two sounds, I haven't found any that really shines or gives quality results. I'm not talking about some kind of vocoder pseudo morph effect, but a true morph plugin that would allow a flowing river sound to slowly morph into a barking dog for example.

Here is what I've found so far: there's the Prosoniq Morph but it's really old and after trying it, I honestly think it does sound quite bad at the end. Very poor morphing rendering quality. There's SpectrumWorx that is pretty cool and that does some types of strange wild morphing, vocoder & convolution effects, but it doesn't allow a simple but powerful morphing effect between 2 sounds. There's the GRM Tools Grinder that allows a certain form of morphing, but again it's more a vocoder distort type of sound than a true morphing effect.

That only leaves a few soft synths that do morphing, like Alchemy, Cube 2, Morphine (all of these I've tried and still not happy with the so-so results). The only ones that really seem to truly deliver are softwares like CSound & Kyma. But in the world of effect plugins with all the different effects available nowadays, why a good morphing plugin doesn't exist yet? No demand? Too complex to code and program? Too cpu demanding?

What do you guys think? :)
Last edited by Neon Breath on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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KVRian
 
759 posts since 4 Aug, 2006, from Helsinki

Postby Harry_HH; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:17 am

I've wondered the same thing (and btw, Prosoniq if just for the Mac).
We had discussion for some months ago (see link) to which also Camelaudio
people took part. But nothing in this area has happened since, to my dissapointment. H.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=
KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:22 am

Interesting... And nice to see I'm not the only one wondering why. I'm totally aware though that it's a very niche type of effect, probably used only by pure sound designers or experimental oriented artists. Maybe that's why developers are not very interested into that type of effect... Still, I think it would also be beneficial to other genres.
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KVRAF
 
3425 posts since 19 Jun, 2002

Postby tony tony chopper; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:35 am

but a true morph


There's no such thing, when you morph it's between specific characteristics/features of a sound, but which of them?
There's most likely no set of features that will work well for every kind of sound. And this is not even taking the technical aspect into account (morphing is easy, properly extracting the features of a sound, that's the far future. And doing analysis is always easier on an existing bit of audio than on a live stream).
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KVRist
 
161 posts since 31 Mar, 2004, from Nuremberg

Postby tweiss2000; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:43 am

Neon Breath wrote:... but a true morph plugin that would allow a flowing river sound to slowly morph into a barking dog ...

What would be the sound you expect in this example in between the river and the dog?
How would it sound?
Have you an example for this morph sound?
KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:49 am

tweiss2000 wrote:What would be the sound you expect in this example in between the river and the dog?
How would it sound?
Have you an example for this morph sound?


I don't have THIS specific effect as example, since it was just an example idea thrown in , but here are some other morph examples in Kyma:

Harp sound morphed in a dog bark: http://ssc-media.com/Audio/mp3/harpguitdog.mp3

A woman into cat, a baby into dog, a dog into a Harley, a woman into a little boy: http://ssc-media.com/Audio/mp3/morphs.mp3
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KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:52 am

Another interesting example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9tXXaXRrM
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KVRian
 
747 posts since 30 Oct, 2005

Postby kvaca; Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:05 pm

tweiss2000 wrote:
Neon Breath wrote:... but a true morph plugin that would allow a flowing river sound to slowly morph into a barking dog ...

What would be the sound you expect in this example in between the river and the dog?
How would it sound?


like a barking river...
KVRian
 
759 posts since 4 Aug, 2006, from Helsinki

Postby Harry_HH; Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Neon Breath wrote:Another interesting example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9tXXaXRrM


Cool. The matrix interface is familiar in e.g. the Alchemy or FM8.
My question is same what you made: why aren't developers such as Camelspace, Fabfilter or Waves interested producing a high quality audio morhing plugin. I don't see this just a niche application at all - new innovations could be included to the morhping idea. H.
lfm
KVRAF
 
2581 posts since 22 Jan, 2005, from Sweden

Postby lfm; Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Did you look at Waves Morphoder:
http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=242

I haven't played around too much with it yet, but I seems it might do the work you ask for.

:)
KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:34 pm

lfm wrote:Did you look at Waves Morphoder:
http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=242

I haven't played around too much with it yet, but I seems it might do the work you ask for.

:)


Cool, but still a vocoder effect with a carrier and a modulator, not audio morphing between two sources.
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KVRist
 
59 posts since 9 Jan, 2011

Postby manvanmars; Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:14 pm

I think the best solution is to use a synthesizer that can morph presets, and then become very good at programming it :P
KVRAF
 
1732 posts since 15 Sep, 2010
 

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:17 pm

manvanmars wrote:I think the best solution is to use a synthesizer that can morph presets, and then become very good at programming it :P


Hmmm no I'm afraid a simple preset morph would only volume-cross fade between the two presets, and not truly and harmonically morph by interpolation into each other.
Last edited by Neon Breath on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Beware the Quoth
 
20634 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:19 pm

I didnt find the Kyma examples that compelling TBH.

But you could always the Cross Synthesis plugin in this one :

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/ircam_trax
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
KVRist
 
59 posts since 9 Jan, 2011

Postby manvanmars; Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:20 pm

Neon Breath wrote:
Hmmm no I'm afraid a simple preset morph would only volume-cross fade between the two presets, and not truly and harmonically morph into each other.


Ok, guess you would have to automate the parameters between presets then.... Only not sure if it would be worth the time, that's gonna be really messy... :lol:
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