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KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:43 am Feature request, I think: Velocity as a modulator for instrument and effect parameters

EDIT: Resolved. Posted on the next page is a screenshot of a setup to modulate an instrument's parameter by velocity. (In the screenshot, the instrument is loaded in a Mux, which is loaded in the rack in the main interface. The instrument is not loaded directly into the rack. There may be other configurations that work, but this arrangement does what I need.)


I may be mistaken in not finding an easy way to already do this, but:

My one request is for the addition of what, to me, seems essential as a modulator for the parameters of both VST instruments and VST effects: velocity.

Or am I not seeing a simple thing? I've looked on the list that appears if one shows the instrument interface and clicks on Options\Map midi controller, and on the same list that appears if I click on Options\Edit Midi controller map\Options\Add mapping and on the same lists that appear when the MUX for the session is shown, and I'm not finding Velocity listed.

If I'm not seeing something obvious:
Of course, many instruments and sample-players allow the user to modulate the parameters from within the instrument. However, many instruments do not: acoustic piano libraries and most acoustic instruments in general.

There are also "effects," such as the pizmidi add-ons, that allow the user to modulate a single parameter. However, they usually only modulate one parameter at a time, requiring that a new instance of the effect be loaded for each parameter that is modulated. Cumbersome.

But I'm hoping that Velocity is already a possible modulator, and I'm just slow in finding it.
Last edited by Jake Jackson on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRist
 
493 posts since 2 Mar, 2009

Postby AndreasD; Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:17 pm

There is a Note To Modulation Converter module.
This gives you keytrack, velocity and a random value.
These can be routed anywhere that can receive modulation. Even to any VST or VSTi(Reverb Decay by velocity maybe...)
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:41 pm

AndreasD wrote:There is a Note To Modulation Converter module.
This gives you keytrack, velocity and a random value.
These can be routed anywhere that can receive modulation. Even to any VST or VSTi(Reverb Decay by velocity maybe...)


Thanks. I found it. But I'm having trouble setting it up. The instructions in the Mux documents don't describe setting it up, as far as I can tell, and experimenting is leading nowhere. What does the input need to be? It outputs to what other module? Sorry if I seem too easily lost. I've assigned velocity to a parameter on many synths, but the sequence of connections here is losing me. (I've tried all of the modules with names that seemed relevant, but none of them offer Velocity as the source of the modulation.)
KVRist
 
493 posts since 2 Mar, 2009

Postby AndreasD; Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:11 pm

Connect the input with the (blue) Event Input. This way you get the notes into the module.
Outputs are just the stripped data from a note message: Keytrack=note number (0..127) and velocity (0..127).
You can set both bipolar to get (-63..0..+64).

If you need to invert the modulation, e.g. shorten amp decay at high notes, either add a modulation mapper module or double click the green connection cable. In both cases set amplitude to negative values (e.g. -100)

You can connect the keytrack/velocity outputs to as many destinations as you like. If you add the above mentioned modulation mapper, you could place the amplitude on the MUX front panel GUI, so that you have direct control over the levels to various destinations.
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:45 pm

AndreasD wrote:Connect the input with the (blue) Event Input. This way you get the notes into the module.
Outputs are just the stripped data from a note message: Keytrack=note number (0..127) and velocity (0..127).
You can set both bipolar to get (-63..0..+64).

If you need to invert the modulation, e.g. shorten amp decay at high notes, either add a modulation mapper module or double click the green connection cable. In both cases set amplitude to negative values (e.g. -100)

You can connect the keytrack/velocity outputs to as many destinations as you like. If you add the above mentioned modulation mapper, you could place the amplitude on the MUX front panel GUI, so that you have direct control over the levels to various destinations.


I'm sorry, but I seem to be getting dimmer. A step seems to be missing, or some brain cells on my part:

1. You wrote that I should connect the input with the (blue) Event Input. Connect which input on which Module to which Event input on which module? I am unable to connect any inputs to another imput.

2. What do I then connect the Velocity output of the "Note to module" to? I have tried connecting the Velocity output to input 1 of Modulation Mapper. However, when I then double-click on the Modulation mapper, it shows Amplitude as the default target. If I then double-click on the Options button, and then on "Map MIDI controller," the only parameter that is available is still Ampltidue. If I instead try to choose a source from the Source dropdown, thinking that is simply named in a way I don't understand, I can choose a parameter, but that parameter is not retained.

But thank-you for your help. I think I need a step-by-step guide from the developers.

(More generally, I'm finding it hard to believe that mapping a parameter to velocity takes so many steps, and that the steps are not clearly laid out. A mod matrix has value because it is easy to use and because one can see all of the parameters and their mapping at a glance.)
KVRist
 
493 posts since 2 Mar, 2009

Postby AndreasD; Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:52 am

Here you see an example how velocity can modulate volume of an amplifier and keytrack modulates pan position (low note send audio to the left and high notes to the right)
Image

I hope this makes the connections clearer.

Where you actually use the velocity modulation for is entirely up to you.
And a simple connection isn't complicated. This is a modular approach, opposite to a fixed approach where you have to choose from a potentially long list of destinations. You can't use a fixed list in a modular environment.
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 pm

Thank-you again. I'm sorry to drag this out, but the Event Input module that appears on your screenshot is not available as a module: it does not appear when I first open the MUX area with a VSTI running, and it is not listed when I click on Add Module and then Inputs/Outputs, or in any of the other lists of modules.

My keyboard is connected and turned on, and the midi in and midi out are correctly assigned in Mulab: I can hear notes. I'm using a Yamaha CP300 keyboard and the VSTI is Pianoteq, if that matters.
Last edited by Jake Jackson on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
5514 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:09 am

Please post a little screenshot of what you see when you popup the Add Module list with the Inputs/Ouputs group opened.
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:30 am

mutools wrote:Please post a little screenshot of what you see when you popup the Add Module list with the Inputs/Ouputs group opened.


Using the free version 5.0.37, in Windows 8 professional 64 bit, here is what appears on the menu. My keyboard is turned on, connected by usb, and does play correctly through Mulab (which is wonderful except when I can't figure it out):

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It occurs to me that the problem may relate to using the free version. Sorry if so. But it would be odd to leave out all event-inputs, shutting down the use of velocity entirely.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
KVRAF
 
5514 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:42 am

You're in the Session MUX, that's why you don't see the Event Input module because on session level MIDI input is handled automatically. The Session MUX is a 'special case' MUX. So insert a 'standard' MUX into a rack or into the session MUX and there you'll find the Event Input module. Hope i explain well.
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:57 am

mutools wrote:You're in the Session MUX, that's why you don't see the Event Input module because on session level MIDI input is handled automatically. The Session MUX is a 'special case' MUX. So insert a 'standard' MUX into a rack or into the session MUX and there you'll find the Event Input module. Hope i explain well.



EDIT: Correction, the screenshot below does not show a working configuration: velocity does not modulate the parameter. Instead, the sound is triggered and the parameter is changed without affecting the sound. When the next note is played, it will be triggered with the parameter settings created by the velocity of the previous note. (Unless the velocity is very different, which may cause the parameter to leap to the much lower or higher default value.) If several notes are played rapidly, there is the illusion that the parameter is being modulated, but only because of this one-note-behind arrangement.

The reason for the lack of modulation is apparent in the screenshot. The Event input is connected to both the Mixer Strip>VSTI chain and the Note to Modulation>Parameter Event>VSTI chain. So the event comes into the VSTI twice, simultaneously triggering the sound and changing the parameter, instead of altering the sound based on the parameter change. I can't quite find a way to link things up correctly. If I create a single chain of Event-Input-Note to Modulation>Parameter Event>VSTI>Audio Output, there is no sound. The same situation exists (no sound) if the chain runs Event input>Mixer Strip>Note to Modulation>Parameter Event>VSTI>Audio Output.


Ahhh! I seem to have it working, now, by using the Basic Effect MUX as a point of departure. The sound plays and the parameter is modulated by velocity:

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Two questions, however:

1. Do I have this set up in the most efficient way, or is my routing or configuration strange? (I feel a little strange, inserting an instrument into an effect, but I could not find a way to create the modulation in the effect and then have it modulate the instrument if the instrument was in the rack below the effect.)

2. To change the direction of the modulation (so an increase in velocity reduces the parameter's value) should I use the Note/Key Vel Filter module, inverting the minimum and max values, or is there a better way?
Last edited by Jake Jackson on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
5514 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:57 am

Jake Jackson wrote:1. Do I have this set up in the most efficient way, or is my routing or configuration strange? (I feel a little strange, inserting an instrument into an effect, but I could not find a way to create the modulation in the effect and then have it modulate the instrument if the instrument was in the rack below the effect.)


Looks ok to me.

2. To change the direction of the modulation (so an increase in velocity reduces the parameter's value) should I use the Note/Key Vel Filter module, inverting the minimum and max values, or is there a better way?


You can also double-click the modulation cables and inverse the amplitude.
Or use a Modulation Mapper and inverse the amplitude.

See
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mux/mux.html
http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mux/mo ... ditor.html
KVRian
 
1163 posts since 13 Sep, 2004

Postby Jake Jackson; Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:10 am

Many, many thanks. Clicking on the green cable between the Note to Modulation module and the Parameter Event module and then inverting the Amplitude works perfectly.

(By the way, I could not get the Note Key/Vel to invert the direction of the modulation. When I changed the Max to 0 and the Min to 127, the modulation simply ceased working. But inverting the Amplitude using the green cable is cleaner, in any case.)
Banned

Postby > DiGiT <; Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:12 am

that link to help/description for modules idea sounds nice right about now... especially if you could add a tip as a user much like a blog or wiki
User avatar
KVRist
 
471 posts since 4 Oct, 2012, from Utah
    

Postby dakkra; Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:14 am

> DiGiT < wrote:that link to help/description for modules idea sounds nice right about now... especially if you could add a tip as a user much like a blog or wiki


I have my blog and now a new youtube channel with tutorials and patches on Mulab/MUX
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