Plugin chain order (vocal track)

[J4R1O]

Hi guys,

Still mixing our album and I'd like to hear your opinion...

What do you think about my vocal plugin chain set up? Something to fix/change? Not sure about the order, especially what comes to Kramer Master Tape and reverb. Any advices? Less is more? Obviosly I'm not looking for a clean vocal sound. Me and our singer like it more dirty.

So, here it goes:

1. Sonar VX-64 (for de-essing), or T-RackS Quad De-Esser

2. Compressor (Sonitus, T-RackS Black or White)

3. Waves Abbey Road REDD.31-57

4. Waves The King's Microphones (only if needed)

5. T-RackS Vintage Compressor Model 670

6. Kramer Master Tape

7. Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter (only if needed)

8. Sonitus Delay (only if needed)

9. ValhallaRoom / ValhallaVintageVerb / ValhallaShimmer

10. Waves Vocal Rider

Sonar VX-64
De-essing mode. I have the T-RackS Quad De-Esser, but still not sure how to get the best out of it.

Compressor
I've found out that Waves Renaissance Compressor works little bit better than Sonitus, so I think I'm gonna buy that one when it's on sale. Still not sure about T-RackS' Black and White... They both sound excellent, but sometimes I just can't find the proper settings.

Waves Abbey Road REDD
I really like the character REDD adds to the sound. I know it's silly to use this and KMT and then add Aphex Exciter to bring back some brightness, but I think it's worth it.

Waves The King's Microphones
I use it on 2-3 tracks. Only if I want to add some special vintage sound.

VC Model 670 for some extra colour, not much compression added.

Kramer Master Tape
15 ips, flux (185-250) and wow & flutter (15-20%).

Aphex Exciter ONLY if the track needs some nice sparkle.

Sonitus Delay
Some wide stereo delay. ValhallaÜberMod on my mind...

Vocal Rider, well, can't use it on sidechain (thanks to Sonar X1), but I think it still does its job pretty well.

Mic used on the lead vocal track: AEA R84 Studio Ribbon Microphone

Preamp: Sebatron Maximus


So?

[The Main Event]

Quite a lot actually. I hope you use the Delay and Reverb as a Send, right?

Personally, i would miss a nice, clean parametric EQ to filter unwanted frequencies first, like FabFilter Pro-Q or whatever your DAW offers. Thats actually my first Plugin in the Vocal-Chain.

And I think, if you have already the Kramer Master Tape, there is no need for the Aural Exciter.

EDIT: Whats nice also, is a small amount of distortion as a Send. I personally prefer the Waves Manny Marroquin. Only for a subtle distortion like John Lennon used it.

[B.A.Tech.]

Which mic and preamp?

[J4R1O]

Quite a lot actually. I hope you use the Delay and Reverb as a Send, right?

First when I tried it, I had no clue how to insert multiple busses via Sonar's Insert Send Assistant, but now when I've figured it out, yes. So you can minus delay and reverb from my chain.

Personally, i would miss a nice, clean parametric EQ to filter unwanted frequencies first, like FabFilter Pro-Q or whatever your DAW offers. Thats actually my first Plugin in the Vocal-Chain.

I use Sonar's ProChannel Eq to cut some lows. I have T-RackS' Pultec, but I only use it on drums.

And I think, if you have already the Kramer Master Tape, there is no need for the Aural Exciter.

Well, I've noticed that because REDD cuts home highs, it is sometimes good to add a little exciter, if needed.

Whats nice also, is a small amount of distortion as a Send. I personally prefer the Waves Manny Marroquin. Only for a subtle distortion like John Lennon used it.

Haven't tried those Marroquin plugins yet. I've heard some rumours that Waves is about to build a hardware unit based on those plugins: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/ ... 1.jpg[url]

[J4R1O]

Which mic and preamp?

AEA R84 Studio Ribbon Microphone and Sebatron Maximus.

[J4R1O]

Quite a lot actually. I hope you use the Delay and Reverb as a Send, right?

I know it is recommendation to use delay and reverb as a send, but what are the benefits of doing so? I think reverb and delay sound a little bit different when used as a send...

[The Main Event]

Thats very easy to understand. A little research on Google between Insert and Send would probably describe it better than me, but let's have a try:

If you insert an effect as an "Insert", your audio track will be manipulated. Like with an EQ or Compressor,...
The original source material will be processed, BUT if you insert a plugin as a "SEND", the original source material will not be processed, the effect you dialed in (most common: reverb, delay, chorus,...) will only be added to the original.
Most reverb plugins have a button called "Mix". If you have it as an INSERT and turn the MIX to 100%, you will only hear the Reverb and at 0% you will only hear the original material. 50% means, that half of the original and half of the reverb will be heard.

As a "SEND", you can always turn the Mix-button to 100%, because it will only be added to the source. If you dial in 50% (as a SEND), only half of the Reverb will be added to the source.
The same goes with Delay, Chorus, Distortion,...

I hope that helps.

[twoifbysea]

Quite a lot actually. I hope you use the Delay and Reverb as a Send, right?

I know it is recommendation to use delay and reverb as a send, but what are the benefits of doing so? I think reverb and delay sound a little bit different when used as a send...

Are you using a reverb and/or delay plugin on other tracks as well? If so, I prefer to use them as a send so that all or most of the effected tracks sound like they are occupying the same "space". Obviously it saves on CPU as well.

[B.A.Tech.]

Which mic and preamp?

AEA R84 Studio Ribbon Microphone and Sebatron Maximus.

Your recording chain is good.Don't add lots of plugins and use main mixing plugins(eq,de-esser,comp)in my opinion.

For me;


1. Kramer Master Tape

2. Waves Vocal Rider

3. Sonar VX-64 (For main "skeletal")

4. T-RackS Vintage Compressor Model 670 (For fine tunning)

5. Waves Abbey Road REDD.31-57 (You can use eq for retouching)

[J4R1O]

Thats very easy to understand. A little research on Google between Insert and Send would probably describe it better than me, but let's have a try:

If you insert an effect as an "Insert", your audio track will be manipulated. Like with an EQ or Compressor,...
The original source material will be processed, BUT if you insert a plugin as a "SEND", the original source material will not be processed, the effect you dialed in (most common: reverb, delay, chorus,...) will only be added to the original.
Most reverb plugins have a button called "Mix". If you have it as an INSERT and turn the MIX to 100%, you will only hear the Reverb and at 0% you will only hear the original material. 50% means, that half of the original and half of the reverb will be heard.

As a "SEND", you can always turn the Mix-button to 100%, because it will only be added to the source. If you dial in 50% (as a SEND), only half of the Reverb will be added to the source.
The same goes with Delay, Chorus, Distortion,...

I hope that helps.

Thanks!

[J4R1O]

Are you using a reverb and/or delay plugin on other tracks as well? If so, I prefer to use them as a send so that all or most of the effected tracks sound like they are occupying the same "space". Obviously it saves on CPU as well.

I've done that with drums (I mix them separately and then add a bounced stereo file to main project). Just wasn't sure about the benefits on using delay/reverb as a send on a single track.

And what comes to other tracks, I use different reverbs on vocals and drums (Amplitube's amp reverbs on guitar tracks), but I have ValhallaRoom (mix 6-16%) on my master bus.

[J4R1O]

Your recording chain is good.Don't add lots of plugins and use main mixing plugins(eq,de-esser,comp)in my opinion.

For me;


1. Kramer Master Tape

2. Waves Vocal Rider

3. Sonar VX-64 (For main "skeletal")

4. T-RackS Vintage Compressor Model 670 (For fine tunning)

5. Waves Abbey Road REDD.31-57 (You can use eq for retouching)

So this is the plugin chain order I should try? First tape and last REDD?

[The Main Event]

BTW i would not recommend a reverb on the master output, if you already have a reverb on the single instruments.
On the master i only have a colouring Compressor (such as a fairchild, maximum 1,5 db gain-reduction) and a FabFilter Limiter, so there's no clipping.

If the mix still needs a reverb (usually not...) the mastering engineer will do it.

[The Main Event]

Your recording chain is good.Don't add lots of plugins and use main mixing plugins(eq,de-esser,comp)in my opinion.

For me;


1. Kramer Master Tape

2. Waves Vocal Rider

3. Sonar VX-64 (For main "skeletal")

4. T-RackS Vintage Compressor Model 670 (For fine tunning)

5. Waves Abbey Road REDD.31-57 (You can use eq for retouching)

So this is the plugin chain order I should try? First tape and last REDD?

Dont't try special Plugin orders from others. Learn the basics of all the effects first and then you will see for yourself, what fits best. You will get the best results with that method, for sure.

[sws2h]

This is my general approach:

1) Trim plug-in: I use this to get the level at the appropriate level when using analog moduled plug-ins. Usually 0VU = 18dbFS or 22dbFS. I also automate the trim plug-in to take out any plosives and harsh sibilance. That was they don't trigger the compressor.

2) Hi-Pass Filter to roll out and unwanted low-end. I use the FabFilter Pro-Q

3) Compressor: I hi-pass first so the low end doesn't trigger the compressor so much.

4) EQ: I normally used the Waves API on every channel.

Then I use sends for effects. That should get you 90% of the way there.