Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[Endor-8o8]

Did the discount on the drop (for The Glue owners) disappear ?

[andy-cytomic]

Any updates on the next build at all? Hanging for those CPU improvements as much as the new model

I found a behaviour I didn't get right in the model of the IR3109 and I've been trying everything under the sun to get it nailed but still haven't sorted it out yet, so sorry for the delay, I'm not holding out on you, but I also don't want to deliver a half done model.

The good news is it took around 30 seconds to reconfigure the 4 pole low pass into a 4 pole high pass circuit, you just have to pass the input through the one side of the capacitor instead of have the capacitor to ground, I'll shoot a video of me doing this to show how easy the switch is. The high pass sounds brilliant too, and once I have finished the low pass model of the IR3109 the high pass is already done since I just switch the components in the same way as the real circuit.

So hopefully not too much longer.

[andy-cytomic]

Did the discount on the drop (for The Glue owners) disappear ?

Thanks for spotting that! I was fiddling with the web page and disabled the discount module to test something and didn't re-enable it. If anyone didn't get their discount please email me directly and I'll sort it out.

[Endor-8o8]

Did the discount on the drop (for The Glue owners) disappear ?

Thanks for spotting that! I was fiddling with the web page and disabled the discount module to test something and didn't re-enable it. If anyone didn't get their discount please email me directly and I'll sort it out.

Ahah no problem Andy, thanks for the support !

[mustgroove]

Thanks Andy still looking forward to the next build... The Drop has basically become the only filter plugin I use... although I gotta say, the one aspect of the plugin that is a massive let down is the drive section, everything else about the plugin sounds immaculate but the drive section sounds quite bad to be actually...

[andy-cytomic]

Thanks Andy still looking forward to the next build... The Drop has basically become the only filter plugin I use... although I gotta say, the one aspect of the plugin that is a massive let down is the drive section, everything else about the plugin sounds immaculate but the drive section sounds quite bad to be actually...

For me the drive is the best part of the plugin!

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of which the Drive knob does which is the problem? The tone of the drive is almost entirely from the filter core itself, the Drive knob is a convenient way of changing the gain staging of the filter, it boosts the input level and pads the output level by the same amount.

The filter core drive is spot on to how the analog circuits sound, you can check the youtube videos if you want hear this for yourself. The Drop is not a distortion plugin with loads of options for waveshaping types for pre or post clipping, so sorry if this is the type of sound you want. My mission with The Drop is to extract the filter core of many different circuits, not any pre or post parts since these vary greatly between synths. This way you can happily process an entire mix as through it, but you are open to use distortion plugins either pre or post if you want as well. The drive from filter cores is completely different to basic waveshaping, it applies different amounts of drive to different frequencies depending on where the cutoff and resonance and input level, this type of tone is really complicated and rich and I find deeply rewarding and inspiring to make music with.

[mustgroove]

Oh I'm definitely not criticising the concept or the execution of the plugin at all Andy, I'm just not a fan of how the drive section sounds really - when the rest of the plugin sounds so impeccable, the drive section is easily the least impressive to me...

The drive section on the UAD Moog filter is pretty awesome by comparison IMO... the actual filter section on the UAD Moog plugin is now blown out of the water by The Drop for me, it's no contest... but in terms of the drive section, it's the UAD that takes the cake... without touching any other parameters, the UAD Moog drive sounds amazing but doing the same with The Drop has always left me underwhelmed.

I actually use the UAD Moog plugin like that a lot - purely for the tone of the drive section, without doing any actual filtering... as it is, I wouldn't really do that with the Drop.

[meloco_go]

Oh I'm definitely not criticising the concept or the execution of the plugin at all Andy, I'm just not a fan of how the drive section sounds really - when the rest of the plugin sounds so impeccable, the drive section is easily the least impressive to me...

The drive section on the UAD Moog filter is pretty awesome by comparison IMO... the actual filter section on the UAD Moog plugin is now blown out of the water by The Drop for me, it's no contest... but in terms of the drive section, it's the UAD that takes the cake... without touching any other parameters, the UAD Moog drive sounds amazing but doing the same with The Drop has always left me underwhelmed.

I actually use the UAD Moog plugin like that a lot - purely for the tone of the drive section, without doing any actual filtering... as it is, I wouldn't really do that with the Drop.

Maybe when Andy's Moog model is out you'd change your opinion=)

[mustgroove]

Maybe when Andy's Moog model is out you'd change your opinion=)

You can only choose filter models for HP and LP filters though right? Drive is just drive isn't it? Being able to select drive sections modelled on each particular filter circuit would be awesome but it doesn't seem to be that way as it is right now?

[andy-cytomic]

Oh I'm definitely not criticising the concept or the execution of the plugin at all Andy, I'm just not a fan of how the drive section sounds really - when the rest of the plugin sounds so impeccable, the drive section is easily the least impressive to me...

The drive section on the UAD Moog filter is pretty awesome by comparison IMO... the actual filter section on the UAD Moog plugin is now blown out of the water by The Drop for me, it's no contest... but in terms of the drive section, it's the UAD that takes the cake... without touching any other parameters, the UAD Moog drive sounds amazing but doing the same with The Drop has always left me underwhelmed.

I actually use the UAD Moog plugin like that a lot - purely for the tone of the drive section, without doing any actual filtering... as it is, I wouldn't really do that with the Drop.

Ahh, ok, this makes sense. You like the sound of Tanh waveshapers. The input stage to the Moog filter is different to that of the Sallen Key MS20 or other OTA core type filters. The differential transistors in the OTA apply a drive similar to, if you ignore base current leakage and the Early effect, and have perfectly matched saturation current, and thermal coupling, and a bunch more assumptions which don't hold in practice something like:

capacitor += gain * tanh (input - capacitor)

notice that if the gain (cutoff frequency) is high then the capacitor will quickly charge up to the input voltage and there is little drive caused by the tanh since input = capacitor, so you will mainly notice the drive on transients.

In the Moog filter, with the same unrealistic simplification assumptions you have something like:

capacitor += gain * (tanh (input) - tanh (capacitor))

notice now that no matter what gain (cutoff) you have your input is always put through a Tanh waveshaper, which is the sound you like. Don't worry, there will be plenty of this sort of more obvious drive in the basic Ladder filter model which will easily match if not improve upon the sound of in the UAD Moog filter plugin. I will also be delivering a full transistor level model called the Ladder PR based on the Moog Prodigy schematic. The way the input stage is biased leads to beautifully complex drive and frequency modulation of the filter.

[andy-cytomic]

Maybe when Andy's Moog model is out you'd change your opinion=)

You can only choose filter models for HP and LP filters though right? Drive is just drive isn't it? Being able to select drive sections modelled on each particular filter circuit would be awesome but it doesn't seem to be that way as it is right now?

Spot on Meloco_go. The drive is part of the filter, change the filter circuit model with the knobs next to the filter circuit text at the top left and right and the character of the drive will completely change. The Drive knob is just a a pre gain and post pad, so it has no character, it's all the filter model that provides the tone.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[lacandon]

Thanks Andy still looking forward to the next build... The Drop has basically become the only filter plugin I use... although I gotta say, the one aspect of the plugin that is a massive let down is the drive section, everything else about the plugin sounds immaculate but the drive section sounds quite bad to be actually...

For me the drive is the best part of the plugin!

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of which the Drive knob does which is the problem? The tone of the drive is almost entirely from the filter core itself, the Drive knob is a convenient way of changing the gain staging of the filter, it boosts the input level and pads the output level by the same amount.

The filter core drive is spot on to how the analog circuits sound, you can check the youtube videos if you want hear this for yourself. The Drop is not a distortion plugin with loads of options for waveshaping types for pre or post clipping, so sorry if this is the type of sound you want. My mission with The Drop is to extract the filter core of many different circuits, not any pre or post parts since these vary greatly between synths. This way you can happily process an entire mix as through it, but you are open to use distortion plugins either pre or post if you want as well. The drive from filter cores is completely different to basic waveshaping, it applies different amounts of drive to different frequencies depending on where the cutoff and resonance and input level, this type of tone is really complicated and rich and I find deeply rewarding and inspiring to make music with.

I love this drive Andy !!!

[electro]

The UAD Moogerfooger is near perfect and the drive is incredible. You also have the new Mini Filter from NI Monark that can be modded to recieve audio input.

[mustgroove]

Maybe when Andy's Moog model is out you'd change your opinion=)

You can only choose filter models for HP and LP filters though right? Drive is just drive isn't it? Being able to select drive sections modelled on each particular filter circuit would be awesome but it doesn't seem to be that way as it is right now?

Spot on Meloco_go. The drive is part of the filter, change the filter circuit model with the knobs next to the filter circuit text at the top left and right and the character of the drive will completely change. The Drive knob is just a a pre gain and post pad, so it has no character, it's all the filter model that provides the tone.

Riiiiiiight, but which filter model - HP or LP? Or a combo of both?