KVR Audio

kvruzer666 · Post by **kvruzer666** » Thu May 23, 2013 7:44 pm

Decided to ask here instead of the Ableton forum since it could be biased...

Anyway...

I'm new to music production, therefore I don't yet understand the difference between EQs, compressors, reverbs, etc. in terms of quality and such. Basically, I'm just wondering if you guys think the Ableton stock EQ8, compressor, reverb, delay, etc. are good quality or should I look elsewhere for those type of plugins? Do you guys think some are good and some aren't? Which ones are which?

I'm gonna be trying to learn processing and I'd like to start on plugins that I will actually use. So, I don't wanna try to teach myself on Ableton's stuff and then find out later, once I get an ear for production, that those plugins aren't that great and have to learn all new plugins, you know?

Thanks in advance.

Fernando Carvalho · Post by **Fernando Carvalho** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:08 pm

I use the ableton devices all the time. They are perfectly fine IMO. Perhaps the reverb is the weakest one, it is useful for some things but is not the only one I would use. That has been addressed in part if you got live9 suite with its new convolution reverb.

If you use the racks and the returns (feedback loops are your friends) you can get complex and dense effects with just the stock effects.

kvruzer666 · Post by **kvruzer666** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:42 pm

Fernando Carvalho wrote:I use the ableton devices all the time. They are perfectly fine IMO. Perhaps the reverb is the weakest one, it is useful for some things but is not the only one I would use. That has been addressed in part if you got live9 suite with its new convolution reverb.

If you use the racks and the returns (feedback loops are your friends) you can get complex and dense effects with just the stock effects.

Cool beans.

Do others feel the same?

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:45 pm

Use and learn your stock tools; once you learn them and know why you want a better quality plug-in, it will
be that much easier.

kvruzer666 · Post by **kvruzer666** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:46 pm

bluedad wrote:Use and learn your stock tools; once you learn them and know why you want a better quality plug-in, it will
be that much easier.

Thanks for the advice.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:52 pm

Use what you have until you can tell the difference. Then you can decide if you need more.

kvruzer666 · Post by **kvruzer666** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:53 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:Use what you have until you can tell the difference. Then you can decide if you need more.

Seems like this will be a common reply. :p

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:57 pm

I think they are fine and use them often, I do not have a shortage of third party processing and effect plugins available either FWIW and a big, big +1 to bluedad's advice. That advice will definitely save you a lot of time and potentially a lot of money also. You'll hone your basics and be able to easily use/trust your ear to choose to invest in additional tools or use freeware (Obviously that could easily be a combination of both, It certainly is in my case)

All the best

Dean

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Thu May 23, 2013 9:30 pm

Flanger, Phaser, and Reverb are ones I'd sort of reject. Everything else ranges from passable to truly great.

Maybe another way to think about the world of plug-ins is, there are a lot of quality options for everything and it's not always about what's 'best', but what's the best choice for some particular sound, or what feels right just on personal preferences. Ableton's stuff is generally a plausible choice.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Thu May 23, 2013 9:38 pm

The Ableton effects are fine. Once you know those, there is very little learning curve if you decide to buy other things later. They all work the same way except for the Beat Repeat, Grain Delay, Saturator and Dynamic Tube, which don't really have direct equivalents, although there are other plugins that do similar things.

The reverb is fine and is very flexible with a handy freeze mode for special effects. I think a lot of the problems that people have with it is that the presets are a bit lively and so don't sound so great on percussion and other difficult sources. EQing the early and late reflections, as well as tweaking the other controls, make a big difference to the sound.

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Thu May 23, 2013 9:56 pm

Gamma-UT wrote: The reverb is fine and is very flexible with a handy freeze mode for special effects. I think a lot of the problems that people have with it is that the presets are a bit lively and so don't sound so great on percussion and other difficult sources. EQing the early and late reflections, as well as tweaking the other controls, make a big difference to the sound.

Especially with some clever racks there are ways to get good things out of Reverb but ... I remember Robert Henke posting on Ableton forums, describing ways to get interesting stereo effects (since it sums to mono before processing ...) with grain delay, chorus, etc., a lot of effort and not really practical for a beginner IMO. Conspicuously his last statement was something like "of course, I just use AltiVerb"

I feel like Ambience (http://magnus.smartelectronix.com) is, like, the one freeware plug anyone just starting into Ableton Live ought to go for.

Mister Natural · Post by **Mister Natural** » Thu May 23, 2013 9:59 pm

I'm a HUGE fan of my native LIVE efx. Really like the low-cpu hit on them, as well. As Gamma mentioned above; often the presets straight-off have way too much wet to dry and sound best with just slightly wet or as send/return

Really fun efx can be found under "Audio Efx Rack" - "Drum Processing", "Performance & DJ", "Tone & Color".

The fx that get the least use here are erosion, EQ3(cause I love EQ8), Gate, Vinyl Dist.

have fun !

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:06 pm

I don't like the reverb and the filter, specially if you want a filter which can get some more character.

For the reverbs the new convolution in 9 is cool but still I prefer to use Valhallaroom.

Then for the filter Fabfilter volcano is also very cool.

The new Glue compressor and the eq 8's bouth by cytomic are quite good, probably the best of both of all stock plug ins among DAW's.

Kaboom75 · Post by **Kaboom75** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:14 pm

Live 9's EQ eight was replaced with an analogue EQ plugin from Cytomic.

Cytomic added the GLue which is the famed The GLue compressor with the GUI replaced with the Ableton gui style.

So no need to use another EQ or Compressor but I do use DMG Audio, Soundtoys, Slate Digital Valhalla DSP and Eventide effects with Live because they have character and sound better. These plugins have had more time spent on them where Live 9 is a jack of all trades with some world class plugins from Cytomic.

padillac · Post by **padillac** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:18 pm

The stock plugins are great. Yes there are better sounding reverbs, and delays with crazy filters and modulation, but the built-in plugins are simple to use, efficient, and sound good. Rack them up and use a controller to automate stuff and you can build extremely interesting effects from scratch. Then there is max for live, which has a bunch of devices available for free, or you can learn to build your own.

I started looking at it as, "Would Bach be able to do something good with these tools?" which when it comes to ableton's workflow and effects I think the answer is "f**k yes" and once I started thinking of it like that it made things a whole lot simpler for me.

Write some songs, learn the workflow and tools. Over time you can add other effects if you want. EQ, delay, compressor, verb, all work the same no matter who wrote it, the difference comes down to sound and workflow and features. None of that is important if you're starting out and your goal is to write and record music.

Use Ableton's stock [processing] plugins or no?