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One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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KVRer
 
26 posts since 25 Apr, 2013
 

Postby Harthstein; Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:33 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

RichardSemper wrote:Frankly I was surprised to see this crop up in the vote as I cannot remember where it was previously raised as an issue. It was also unclear what was being voted for, as there was no mention of the existing rule (no prizes). It looked like DQ or nothing.

+1

Sorry, I have misunderstood this too. It sounds like: "no vote -> no prize". I believe this is an important rule.

But a "DQ" nearby the songname? :o It means the submission is false and disqualified, maybe a swindle. In my opinion this is not correct. I did not vote for that! Punishment is not good to bring people together.
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KVRian
 
1216 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:37 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

The only thing that you will win with such rules is that less and less people will participate. Not regarding for the prize... but because such rules are totally loosing the main purpose of a contest like this one: the pleasure to participate!

With such rules where is the pleasure for a beginner or for people who just want to participate? Will there be still new comers? I don't think so. Or maybe very few. OSC will become a contest where month after month you will meet always the same persons, the regular users.

I wanted to participate. But with a rule like this one, I don't see anymore the main purpose of the contest: simply the pleasure to participate. The purpose of a rule like this one is targeted only on the prize. And just for that it's leading me away. And you can be sure that it will lead away certainly a lot of people. Because if as soon as you can't vote for any reason... it will really be felt as a punishment!
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:43 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

idfpower wrote:Well it's not for me to decide, but IMO those tracks should be completely removed from the list, and not just bottomed down with a "DQ" tag next to them. There's no point in keeping them listed and indirectly helping them to gain feedback. But that's just me.

Why should 'getting feedback' on a track be dependant on 'have voted' instead of 'have made a track with this synth' ? Your statement shows exactly why this is a bad idea, as the focus is now on voting instead of making a track in the first place :roll:

idfpower wrote:That being said, I still don't get why this is such a touchy subject...every OSC some ppl decide not to participate because they lack the time. And they don't complain about it.

This has really nothing to do with the issue we are debating here.

idfpower wrote:Now if you do however decide to join and submit a song, why is it so difficult to save some time for voting?

Because I don't have a crystal ball that shows me the future :D When I have time to do a track, that is a very temporal exercise that has no link to having or not having time available later on.

idfpower wrote:And even when you don't manage to vote, why do you think it's unfair to see your song disqualified? You get feedback & plays during submitting & voting. IMO that's plenty of exposure for not voting...

I don't understand your obsession with getting feedback while not voting. Feedback is for the track well done (or not) and SHOULD have nothing to do with voting, winning prizes or any such stuff. Maybe it didn't occur to you, but I'm pretty sure MOST of the contestants are NOT in it for the prizes.

idfpower wrote:Try puting yourself in the voter's shoes for a change....

Nope, I'm standing pretty firm in the contestants (as in 'making a track') shoes: the ones that put in a lot of time and effort to pay homage to both the chosen synth AND the great spirit (so far) of the OSC, and can't care less about the prizes. Try to stand in their shoes, and imagine you have this spirit but got served something 'that should hurt' because they don't have time to vote (so someone can claim their prize :roll: ). I'm pretty sure that, apart from people signing off beforehand, those contestants will be done with OSC as well.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
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KVRAF
 
3910 posts since 15 Dec, 2009
 

Postby V'ger; Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:25 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

chilledpanda wrote:Hmm I thought tactical voting had been proved to have been ruled a negligible effect on the competition or that was one of the points made for returning to a 1..5 voting system.

It has been very minimal but it has still happened. Both times the loopholes used was closed with new rules (must vote to get prizes + 40 KVR posts before competition start to vote) and it never really happened again which speaks well in favor of using rules to close loopholes. There was never much talk that those new rules made the competition more cutthroat.

The new rule of 'DQ if not voted' is a step up from the 'no prize if not voted', but not that big step imo.

Although arguments and discussion are always welcome, it would seem in this case they should really have been made during voting and not after as it serves little purpose other than to pull down the vibe and slightly diss the democratic process. Some are unhappy with the new rules, but others wanted it.

But it's duly noted. As with the stack-all-tracks system that was voted in with 97%, it was soon voted out when the reality of it set in and enough voices made it clear a revote on the issue was in order, so I guess not long before this (and others) comes up.
KVRist
 
262 posts since 20 Apr, 2012

Postby adagiocm; Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:06 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

idfpower wrote:Well it's not for me to decide, but IMO those tracks should be completely removed from the list, and not just bottomed down with a "DQ" tag next to them. There's no point in keeping them listed and indirectly helping them to gain feedback. But that's just me.

Wow. I'm glad the OSC admins are not of this mind set, and keep the competition much more friendly. I would never participate if the environment ever gets so harsh.
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KVRian
 
950 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Postby idfpower; Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:50 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

crimsonwarlock wrote:Why should 'getting feedback' on a track be dependant on 'have voted' instead of 'have made a track with this synth' ? Your statement shows exactly why this is a bad idea, as the focus is now on voting instead of making a track in the first place :roll:

It should be like that, but in reality is not. (Some) ppl listen to your OSC track only because they have to. I'll give you an example (or 2): on Soundcloud my OSC tracks have around 200 - 300 plays as opposed to my non OSC songs (most still struggling to break the 100 plays mark). I've also made audio demos for various synths (kind of like an OSC track but with drum loops and no effects/processing whatsoever) and those did worse :) There are some popular OSC participants that can generate enough buzz on their own, but the average joe like me would prolly not get that kind of feedback without entering OSC.


crimsonwarlock wrote:Because I don't have a crystal ball that shows me the future :D When I have time to do a track, that is a very temporal exercise that has no link to having or not having time available later on.

I can understand that, but don't you think that's kind of your problem? Others seem to find the time to do it and I'm pretty sure they do have a life AFK as well ;)


crimsonwarlock wrote:I don't understand your obsession with getting feedback while not voting. Feedback is for the track well done (or not) and SHOULD have nothing to do with voting, winning prizes or any such stuff. Maybe it didn't occur to you, but I'm pretty sure MOST of the contestants are NOT in it for the prizes.

Like I've previously said: it has everything to do with voting & the OSC rules. Usually most comments that I get on a track are posted during the voting period. Some folks genuinely like listening to all songs & comment, others do it only because they are required to do so and maybe try to gain sympathy and a higher mark. Just because you and me don't care about the prizes (for the record: I don't) or tactical voting and all that crap doesn't mean others don't care either.


crimsonwarlock wrote:Nope, I'm standing pretty firm in the contestants (as in 'making a track') shoes: the ones that put in a lot of time and effort to pay homage to both the chosen synth AND the great spirit (so far) of the OSC, and can't care less about the prizes. Try to stand in their shoes, and imagine you have this spirit but got served something 'that should hurt' because they don't have time to vote (so someone can claim their prize :roll: ). I'm pretty sure that, apart from people signing off beforehand, those contestants will be done with OSC as well.

This is getting out of hand fast because you don't seem to understand (or don't want to) a simple fact: creating a song is just HALF of your job as an OSC participant - the other HALF is VOTING. And for the record - in case you haven't noticed: I am in the contestant's shoes as well; the difference is that I can see the issue from both sides (or at least try to), nut just from my own perspective. I'm only trying to make you understand why voting is critical but I guess there's no point in continuing - arguing with ppl on the Internet is not my cup of tea so I'm out.

In the end do whatever makes you happy :)
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KVRist
 
262 posts since 20 Apr, 2012

Postby adagiocm; Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:48 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Harthstein wrote:
RichardSemper wrote:Frankly I was surprised to see this crop up in the vote as I cannot remember where it was previously raised as an issue. It was also unclear what was being voted for, as there was no mention of the existing rule (no prizes). It looked like DQ or nothing.

+1

Sorry, I have misunderstood this too. It sounds like: "no vote -> no prize". I believe this is an important rule.

But a "DQ" nearby the songname? :o It means the submission is false and disqualified, maybe a swindle. In my opinion this is not correct. I did not vote for that! Punishment is not good to bring people together.

It seems that too many people were not clear on what was being voted here. On that basis, I request that we revote this item next time.

For the record, I voted every time I participated, and once voted even when I couldn't participate. However, I find this rule too much in the opposite of the friendly OSC spirit.
KVRian
 
1061 posts since 18 Dec, 2010, from North America
 

Postby bjporter; Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:31 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

To all concerned about this issue - there will definitely be a re-vote.

I was thinking that something as simply as -5 pts off could be far more fair than a DQ.

Plus it reminds me of the US restaurant chain:

Image


On another note, there is talk of creating thousands of years jail sentences for criminals using biotechnology :o
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... years.html
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KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:53 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

idfpower wrote:a simple fact: creating a song is just HALF of your job as an OSC participant - the other HALF is VOTING.

That is not a fact, it is YOUR interpretation of what the OSC is. So far I didn't see any reply here siding with you, but several as to the opposite. If I remember correctly, with the first few OSC there weren't even prizes to win. Your focus is too much on it being a contest where you win something (or not) and voting has to be enforced because of that.

My simple perspective is this: I'm not in it for the prizes, if I should win something (will never happen :hihi: ) I will step out of the winning team so one other track will get a prize. If I get to submit a track, it is purely to be part of the bunch; I'm known in the community (here and outside KVR) as one of the freeware ambassadors in the scene. I don't have any use for commercial stuff (besides my Reaper license), I have tons of commercial licensed stuff shelved (lots of NFRs). I like to get comments on my track, but even that is not my aim in participating. I'm simply here for the fun of it, and many others are too.

I'll leave it at that. We'll see at the re-vote. As the DQ-rule is currently in effect, I will refrain from this months OSC, although I was really looking forward to putting in some time with PolyIblit. That'll have to wait for another time.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
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KVRian
 
1216 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:32 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

I haven't seen Armchair Guitarist in your collection. With the stuff made by Fretted Synth Audio (especially Free Amp, Guitar Controlled Bass Synth, PhazOsc, and SafFron2L) you can make absolutely incredible works emulating a wonderful electric guitar alone or driving very nice special synths (and which can be also driven by all other kinds of audio sources, and mixed with even other sources...).

There are very few VSTs emulating electric guitars, and Mike Norrish's guitar is really nice.

And about Fretted Synth Audio, his website referenced in KVR doesn't exist anymore, he his now hosted by Rekkerd at this page where you can find absolutely all his products, even those not referenced at KVR.

With Armchair Guitarist all the stuff of Fretted Synth Audio is really a top notch collection for electric guitar lovers.

All that is freeware of course, that's why I talk you about them.

And it can interest other friends also here...
:tu:
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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KVRist
 
351 posts since 23 Mar, 2011, from Schwerte, Germany
  

Postby RuediRena; Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:01 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

adagiocm wrote:
idfpower wrote:Well it's not for me to decide, but IMO those tracks should be completely removed from the list, and not just bottomed down with a "DQ" tag next to them. There's no point in keeping them listed and indirectly helping them to gain feedback. But that's just me.

Wow. I'm glad the OSC admins are not of this mind set, and keep the competition much more friendly. I would never participate if the environment ever gets so harsh.


I wholeheartedly agree with adagiocm. I like the OSC mainly for its constructive and ever friendly atmosphere concentrating on the process of creating music and making the impossible happen with sometimes little buggy software to express the minds and the musical spirits of its participants. There always was a core feeling of fun and friendship to me and I hope it will remain for as long as there will be new synth-a-ma-thingies to explore.

Have a nice day you all.
Ruedi 8)
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KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:37 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

RuediRena wrote:I like the OSC mainly for its constructive and ever friendly atmosphere concentrating on the process of creating music and making the impossible happen with sometimes little buggy software to express the minds and the musical spirits of its participants.

THIS! Beautifully stated, couldn't have said it better :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
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KVRAF
 
3910 posts since 15 Dec, 2009
 

Postby V'ger; Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:40 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Note:

There's a new resource page on the site with tips and tricks about making tracks and sounds etc:

https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/howtos

The link to the page can be found in the page FAQ under this question:

    "It is difficult making tracks and especially drum sounds with the synth, what can I do?
    Here is a page with collected videos, tutorials and links that you might find useful."

Please make some more material like videos or picture articles etc if you can and it'll be added to the page. Or just suggest links to other stuff.
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KVRian
 
982 posts since 26 Oct, 2007, from UK
  

Postby do_androids_dream; Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:01 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

I'm not going to read the whole thread so I have no idea if anyone's already touched up on this... One of the things that stops me entering the OSC is the fact that it's run as a competition. This takes a lot away from the spirit of collectively taking part in something artistic for me. As I recall when it first started it was more about sound design than whether or not you have the talent to make a great piece of music and it seems to me that the first prize often goes to whoever has the best compositional chops rather than 'how' one uses the synth. We all know that any synth out there can make the bread and butter sounds for a track so I think that other criteria should come into play to make things more interesting.
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KVRAF
 
1561 posts since 17 Apr, 2001, from At the boundaries of time

Postby crimsonwarlock; Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:54 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

do_androids_dream wrote:I'm not going to read the whole thread so I have no idea if anyone's already touched up on this... One of the things that stops me entering the OSC is the fact that it's run as a competition. This takes a lot away from the spirit of collectively taking part in something artistic for me. As I recall when it first started it was more about sound design than whether or not you have the talent to make a great piece of music and it seems to me that the first prize often goes to whoever has the best compositional chops rather than 'how' one uses the synth. We all know that any synth out there can make the bread and butter sounds for a track so I think that other criteria should come into play to make things more interesting.

+1 :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin

Using: Reaper and loads of freeware plugins
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