Knife tool, WTF? Any way to cut stuff up that makes sense? With or without the knife tool?

[Wuji]

Is there anyway to just normally cut a clip in half or into sections so no data is lost in bitwig (as in logic when using their scissor tools, or other DAWs cut tools)? At the moment you can't do this with the knife tool. Events after the cut point are deleted. Automation after the cut point/s doesn't transfer if dragged into the clip launcher.

For example, if I've made a bass line with some complex automation that goes over 4 bars, but, at one point in the song I then want to split it up, to play alternate parts, like, the 1st bar of the bass line, then a 1 bar break, then the second bar, and so on, and I want to drag these different bars into the clips section, is there any way to do this?

Not being able to do this is limiting. You have to duplicate the arranger clip 4 times in this example and cut each one down/edit each one so bar 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the bass line in different clips remained (rather than just cutting 4 times).

Maybe this is because I am coming from logic, but, when I use a chopping in half tool/splitting tool like scissors in logic, I do it because I want to split the event in half, or three pieces or so on.

Apparently the issues outlined here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=414342 are not bugs at all, but actually intended features.

When you use the knife tool, data after the cut point is deleted; so why even bother cutting in half? Why not just drag the event so it misses out that section? Why have the other half remain in the DAW with no data? This makes no sense to me.

Also, then, if you drag and drop the cut up bits into the clips then, the automation is missing; again, this is a design choice.

If it gets rid of all of the information after the cut point then I don't see what the point of the clips, after the cut point, remaining there is. They might as well be deleted if there's no information in them, no?

Why not have one tool that actually just cuts clips like normal, so, no data is lost, and another that does what the knife currently does (if you say that you can use it as a feature, but, I personally don't understand any situation in which I would use it)? Or, if you hold shift/control/command with the knife tool, then with the shift/command/control it cuts and the other does whatever it is that this knife tool does?

Also, it's not just with the knife tool though. If I use the time selection tool to separate a clip, then the same thing happens.

[lokid]

Ill start by saying that I am on Linux, but I am not personally seeing the behavior you are reporting. I did a test here, so let me tell you my steps because this worked for me:

Make a bassline in a new clip in the clip view. Add some Automation.
Drag the clip out to the arrange view. Cut it up into 4 pieces. All the clips have their automation remain for me.
Move the bits around to shuffle the cut up pieces. The automation moves with the cut up clips.
Consolidate the pieces in their new order into one clip. Drag it back into the clip view. Seems to work just fine.

I did a second test where I dragged just one of the cut bits into the clip view, and that placed the whole original uncut clip back into the clip launcher. Checking into the midi clip it looked like there were now 4 sub-sections to the original clip and selecting each cut bit in the arrange view selected the same section of the midi clip in the Edit view.

Correct me if Im wrong, but this seems to be the behavior you are looking to achieve? Maybe there is an option some where that is changing the behavior? this is what happens for me in a brand new default project.

[askewd]

I'm from logic as well... And have not had any issues with the knife tool, it works just like logics I think. The only issue I have with it is you can't cut multiple tracks/regions in one go... Nothing is getting deleted though.

I'm only using it in arrangement though, not in clip launcher as yet.

[Wuji]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, because the bitwig support staff actually confirmed that this is not a bug but is supposed to happen, if you follow the steps in the attached video, do you not, or do you get the same results?

Right, apparently I can't upload MP4. Anyone know of video file I can upload?

Ok so, step by step:

Create a new polysynth track.

Insert new event in the arrange window.

Have it go over 4 bars.

Insert ONE note that spans the whole 4 bars.

Record/input automation (cuttoff is easy to tell) throughout the whole 4 bars.

Use the knife and cut into 4 equal separate sections/bars.

BUG 1 (at least a bug to me, I'm told officially that it's a feature and supposed to happen). Here, for me, now, the 3 sections after the first section (bar 2, 3 and 4) are now silent. The cut bit of note in them is now greyed out and unmuting/muting does nothing to get it back, the data is gone. However, if you double click and click again on the greyed out note you can manually put a note back in its place.

Do this for the 3 sections with greyed out parts.

Now, if you press play in the arrange section, you can here the notes and the automation working.

However, now, select all 4 sections and drag and drop them into the clip launcher.

BUG 2 (at least a bug to me, I'm told officially that it's a feature and supposed to happen). Now, for me, though some of the clips look like they have the automation data (I don't know if this is new in 1.0.11), only the first one actually does. If I press play on the first clip then I can hear the automation data/the cuttoff moving/changing, but, in clip 2, 3, or 4, there's not automation, it just plays a note, with no automation.

Do you not get these results when doing this?

This is strange and pointless behaviour in my opinion if it is a feature/intended, and if not, then, of course it needs fixing, but, I've already been told that all of this is normal by the official bitwig channels.

[Wuji]

Bump/anyone?

[Ogopogo]

Followed your instructions, and I think I'm getting exactly the behavior you describe. The only thing I have to add is that the automation seems be garbled during the transfer from the arrange to the clip launcher in all clips but the first. Here's a cap from after fixing the note in the item, where I move the clips into the launcher. Sorry, it's a big gif:

http://i.imgur.com/sn9omQ0.gif

[Ogopogo]

Right, apparently I can't upload MP4. Anyone know of video file I can upload?

Gifs with licecap will work most of the time: http://www.cockos.com/licecap/

[Wuji]

Followed your instructions, and I think I'm getting exactly the behavior you describe. The only thing I have to add is that the automation seems be garbled during the transfer from the arrange to the clip launcher in all clips but the first. Here's a cap from after fixing the note in the item, where I move the clips into the launcher. Sorry, it's a big gif:

http://i.imgur.com/sn9omQ0.gif

Thank you Ogopogo, as I expected (as it was reported and said to be normal behaviour).

NOW, we've confirmed this, can anyone possibly answer my original question, and tell me if they know of a way to cut up clips so that they retain their A: note data, and/or B: automation data when being transferred into the clip launcher?

Cheers guys