What's so great about Tracktion?

[bbaggins]

Great responses! Thank you all.

I had a suspicion that Tracktion users might offer cogent views beyond the usual "dude, it's friggin awsum".

I completely agree that a conventional floating mixer window would be an asset that many users of conventional DAWs would expect to have. I'm missing a dedicated PRV that I can drag into a second monitor and maximize to make room to display and edit many tracks at once. I'm also missing the usual right-click context menus, having to train myself to look down at the bottom of the screen for details.

But I'm also starting to grasp the Tracktion design philosophy and I understand that a separate mixer view does kind of violate that dedication to simplicity and instant accessibility. As soon as you start adding those kinds of things you've drifted away from the "modeless" model and before you know it you've got yet another Cubase clone.

How about the lack of bundled effects and instruments? Personally, it's a non-issue because I have amassed a huge collection of third-party plugins over the years - all of which (so far) work fine with Tracktion. But I think Tracktion will have the greatest appeal to new DAW users who are starting out with whatever the DAW vendor supplied them.

Do you think it would be smart to bundle more third-party tools? Maybe they could be freebies such as Limiter No. 6 or the Meldaproduction free bundle, so as to not have to raise the price. I have no idea if any developers would be interested in such an arrangement, but it seems like a win-win all around.

[Ben di Arrows]

I'm missing a dedicated PRV that I can drag into a second monitor and maximize to make room to display and edit many tracks at once.

OK you've got me. Can you do this with a pressure release valve?

[whyterabbyt]

I completely agree that a conventional floating mixer window would be an asset that many users of conventional DAWs would expect to have.

Agreed, even though Id never use it myself.

I'm missing a dedicated PRV that I can drag into a second monitor and maximize to make room to display and edit many tracks at once.

Again agreed, but not something I'd use. However, as I run it on a 2560x1440 monitor, I would really like the screen real estate back that gets pinched due to excessive 'resizing' of certain screen elements.

I'm also missing the usual right-click context menus, having to train myself to look down at the bottom of the screen for details.

yes yes bloody yes, goddamit.

Do you think it would be smart to bundle more third-party tools?

Not really. I think its easy enough to point neophytes at decent free stuff.

[dupont]

Edit clips is a feature that basically allows you to create sub-edits under a main edit or project. It's as easy as dragging a subedit tab into the main edit track you wish you place it and *voila*, Tracktion renders it down in the main project for mixing. It's that easy. You only need to click the menu that asks you to save the edit before it renders it. I'd say that's pretty innovative and badass. I think TSC has put it up for patent, even.

That sounds good but that not works good http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=424948

[dupont]

But that does suggest another line of questions: what's missing from Tracktion that might keep it from playing with the big boys? How about looping a region and recording multiple takes, comping or punching in?

The following is missing:
Better drum clips : sequencer clips feature could be cool to use but lake of basic operations like velocity, per note clic audition, drum note names , mute/note solo on the clip are missing.
No automation sync to tempo
No midi ghost clips
controler curve editing, you currently can't edit but only rewrite
No information of the note automation parameters used
a midi event lists
No midi double note detection, so if you have one hidden notes within hundreds, good luck to find it !
No audio marker time stretch
No midi parameters random (to add variation to velocity for example)

Perhaps some features will be added by TSC for T6 ?

[Mivo]

Do you think it would be smart to bundle more third-party tools? Maybe they could be freebies such as Limiter No. 6 or the Meldaproduction free bundle, so as to not have to raise the price. I have no idea if any developers would be interested in such an arrangement, but it seems like a win-win all around.

External plugins "mess" a bit with the one-window approach, so bundling Tracktion with third party products would be a bit of a mixed bag. The plugs that it comes with are usable, though they could benefit from some improvements. What I feel Tracktion really needs, though, is an instrument; even a run-of-the-mill synth would do. (Mulab comes with nice stuff for around the same price, but it's not nearly as suitable for recording.)

[ianballarddrums]

But I'm also starting to grasp the Tracktion design philosophy and I understand that a separate mixer view does kind of violate that dedication to simplicity and instant accessibility. As soon as you start adding those kinds of things you've drifted away from the "modeless" model and before you know it you've got yet another Cubase clone.

They don't have to make a floating window option. Even just simple faders at the info window at the bottom, arranged from first to last track would speed up certain aspects of mixing. It doesn't have to deviate from the design at all. You just type Alt-M (or whatever) and a mini-mixer pops up at the info window and you have a flow that is consistent with desk mixing. Again, it's an option. As I said, I compensate by setting up my NLS plugins so that I can control the "mix busses" (Tracks with individual tracks fed into them) with the VCA faders on the NLS master bus. It works OK in the confines of fine tuning levels and being able to control the "drive" of each bus. If they never add a "mixer", I'd be fine with it. I just cannot access individual tracks with the VCA faders.

[frankvg]

a flow that is consistent with desk mixing.

If they want to improve on some sort of mixing environment, I do hope they come up with something more interesting than copying hardware.

[theoldguy]

OK. say you have a project with 30 tracks.

Rotate your monitor 90 degrees

Rotate your volume controls 90 degrees

Boom! 30 channel mixer

Just kidding

I grew up on hardware mixers. I built an 18 channel mixer for my 8 track Scully tape recorder that worked very well for the time (back in '80). I found the mixer emulations in Cakewalk and Cubase to be less than user friendly and I was always having to dive into another window to see what it was doing.

As soon as I started to learn how Tracktion worked I said "This works great for me" and I stopped thinking in terms of emulating conventional mixers. Having the ability to comp, apply any plugin to the whole track or just one clip or section of a track and to create and render subs gives me all of the flexibility I need plus I can see the door open for further development.

Everyone has their own way of working and I understand that people who started out using six inch long throw faders and channel strips as I did may not want to change their mindsets after years of working that way but I see a world of possibility in TSC's approach.

One of those possibilities is a mixer emulation if they choose to do it but as others have said, I'd like to see what direction the current system can evolve into rather than fall back to mixer emulation. Time to move on.

Regards,

theoldguy

[Ben di Arrows]

Everyone has their own way of working and I understand that people who started out using six inch long throw faders and channel strips as I did may not want to change their mindsets after years of working that way but I see a world of possibility in TSC's approach.

One of those possibilities is a mixer emulation if they choose to do it but as others have said, I'd like to see what direction the current system can evolve into rather than fall back to mixer emulation. Time to move on.

Regards,

theoldguy

+1

If you want hardware emulation buy reason.

[mcnelson]

I grew up on hardware mixers. I built an 18 channel mixer for my 8 track Scully tape recorder that worked very well for the time (back in '80). I found the mixer emulations in Cakewalk and Cubase to be less than user friendly and I was always having to dive into another window to see what it was doing.

Indeed. Some of us came to Tracktion because it didn't eschew that traditional paradigm.

10 years ago, Tracktion was revolutionary, and it continues to be forward looking.

I'd like to see what direction the current system can evolve into rather than fall back to mixer emulation. Time to move on.

+1

[aMUSEd]

+100 no mixer is what attracted me to Tracktion more than anything else - mixers don't as make much sense to me as Tracktion's approach.

[bbaggins]

OK you've got me. Can you do this with a pressure release valve?

For me, a DAW is a pressure release valve.

OK, it appears the consensus is that the mixer issue is a non-issue. I'm with theoldguy on this, being an old guy myself and someone who hasn't used a real mixer since 1999.

But I'm thinking that for Tracktion to get traction in the marketplace (in addition to shaking off the "yawn - it came free with my mixer" stigma), they've got to do one of two things: convince users of other DAWs to move over, or convince new DAW users that Tracktion will be an easier row to hoe.

I can't imagine a whole lot of longtime DAW users switching, but I could be wrong about that. I was surprised by Reaper and I was surprised by Studio One, both of which pulled many an old-timer away from other DAWs. ProTools users continue to leave in droves, but mostly to other full-featured DAWs and mostly to Logic.

Seems to me, if I was in marketing, that I'd try to figure out how to paint Tracktion as the logical choice for inexperienced DAW users. Simplicity, ease-of-use and a gentle learning curve are surely a good start.

So let me pose this question to you: if you had to get up in front of an audience at NAMM or AES or Musikmesse and convince them that Tracktion was all that, what would be your opening line?

[theoldguy]

bbaggins wrote:
So let me pose this question to you: if you had to get up in front of an audience at NAMM or AES or Musikmesse and convince them that Tracktion was all that, what would be your opening line?

I'd say
" It was necessary to incorporate the traditional mixer and outboard gear paradigm FOR THE INITIAL TRANSITION from hardware studio equipment into a virtual environment in order to accommodate the thinking processes of the customer/user base AT THAT TIME.

As the years have passed these emulations have become less and less relevant as new generations move into the the field of audio recording. Each succeeding generation brings with it an enhanced understanding of how to use the tools of the electronic age because they have the supporting background of how to use current technology ingrained in their psyche from the daily use of electronic tools."

Think of how many times you have heard someone say "my 10 year old nephew can program my remote but I have no idea how it works."

Personally I think it is silly to have a great working LA-2A plugin for example, (I have one) with a screenshot of the 60 year old LA-2A replete with virtual knobs and switches that you adjust to make it work. But that's the rut they are stuck in. As time passes and new blood comes into the recording industry, this too will pass. They will focus on streamlining and workflow and won't need pictures of vintage gear to perform their tasks. BTW I love that plugin.

I think Tracktion is like that shot of the hilltop in the action movie where the helicopter starts to rise from behind the hill and as it gradually comes into view you see that it is bristling with rockets and cannons and it is looking straight at YOU.

Traction is coming over the horizon, bristling with new ideas and ways to work.

Its time to join the ranks and learn the new paradigm - or run for cover as the changing world passes you by.

Regards,

theoldguy

[mcnelson]

So let me pose this question to you: if you had to get up in front of an audience at NAMM or AES or Musikmesse and convince them that Tracktion was all that, what would be your opening line?

Signal goes left to right.

Thank you and goodnight.

(rhyming unintentional).