Bitwig

Andrei Marchenko · Post by **Andrei Marchenko** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:31 am

Example:

1) Set Grid to 16 and St
2) Create midi note
3) Great! We have midi note that sits proper in 1/16 grid

4) Then set grid to same 16 but with 3t
5) Create midi note
6) What you see? Yes! Midi note length not response to the grid settings

When this one will be solved? 1,5 year after release and most of important things still not solved!

P.S.: Time to time i start to think that most of people who using/testing BWS not musicians but software tweakers that do not produce music.

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:57 am

There are many things from a "traditional" music point of view that are neglected (like what you brought up), though many of these things are also on their todo list for future features. I understand the focus considering the background of the developers and the scene, it is heavily geared towards EDM, and thus pretty rigid (musically speaking).

I am always conflicted because the DAW from a software point of view is very inspiring and clean, and the workflow is generally pretty freeing. But I feel your pain. To be fair, it is much improved over 1.0. The developers are very intelligent and they know about current limitations. I think eventually BWS will be the most inspiring DAW to work in, but it may be a long time before you see things that composers and sound editors need.

Someday I hope to see crossfades, gain handles, time signature modulation, comp editing for recorded audio takes, better export options for sound designers and post production, etc. However I really think the gap between the EDM focus and traditional composition is not that huge. There are a few main things that once implemented, cover the majority of what musicians need. Aside from something like real notation, maybe they are things that actually won't take that long?

Pretty sure the piano roll will always see continuous updates, and what you described was something that changed shortly after 1.0. Drawing notes will draw the same note length as the last drawn note, and this does sort of conflict with making a 16th straight note, then switching to a triplet grid and making a 16th triplet. It could very well be just a bug, and if you report it they can probably fix something like that relatively quickly.

I love BWS but I am very glad that I am ultra busy with a non-musical project at the moment, because I would have been waiting for 1.2 for over 6 months at this point. I still think they do things the right way, but the right way takes longer than the wrong way. But yes, the essence of stuff like this (quantized session clips, etc) is by nature EDM focused. If it can accommodate less rigidity, I will be overjoyed.

shadiradio · Post by **shadiradio** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:59 am

Also I definitely wouldn't consider this a "showstopper" as you can certainly work around this, even if it's annoying. If you draw and adjust a 16th note while in the triplet grid, then all future notes in that grid will be correct. Definitely annoying, but not in the sense where you simply cannot achieve what you want.

Regnas · Post by **Regnas** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:35 am

Geek Model wrote:P.S.: Time to time i start to think that most of people who using/testing BWS not musicians but software tweakers that do not produce music.

I'm with you on this one.... and I also think that the Bitwig's piano roll needs a complete overhaul...

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:11 am

People asked for this feature. It's the note length memory that means whenever you create a note it will be the same length of the last note you manipulated. Originally from FL Studio. Send in an fr if you want the option to turn it off.

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:30 am

From a technical standpoint, Bitwig is quite cool. I agree though that technical "software tweaking" and general DAW wizardry for the sake of DAW wizardry doesn't really result in songs I like often. I can do most of the same things with fancy plugins much faster personally.

The more they fix these workflow inconsistencies the better the DAW will be in the longrun. I know they want to get closer to feature parity with competitors, but they need to remember that its the simple things that just should work which will drive people away.

WXLF · Post by **WXLF** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:06 am

Geek Model wrote:P.S.: Time to time i start to think that most of people who using/testing BWS not musicians but software tweakers that do not produce music.

https://soundcloud.com/dualityconcept

I like your soundcloud page, Andrey.

WXLF · Post by **WXLF** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:08 am

On a side note, I agree with everything shadiradio said.

maschinelf · Post by **maschinelf** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:50 am

+1

I really like bitwig, and want to keep liking it. But I keep coming across small things that I find very frustrating and workflow killers. For example, another big problem for me is how it doesn't keep playback follow focus on clips launched from the clip launcher, whether in the panel view or edit view. It does it just fine with clips in the arrange view (also double click to fit to screen works here), but not in clip view. Unless I'm missing something here, this doesn't seem possible.

Also, the usual rhetoric nowadays seems to be that it's "coming" in 1.2. Well, 1.2 isn't here except for a few privileged people who have access to the beta. I wish they hadn't announced it so long ago, expectations would be different then.

I still think that it is very much possible to finish full tracks with it, but I can see how it would appeal more to tweakers than musicians. I recently bought a push and decided to demo Live, and seeing how smoothly they work together (and the enhanced functionality available with pxt live & live plus), and with the automation pdc issues finally sorted with 9.2, I am finding that Live has a lot of these small things working in a more sensible manner, and in general the workflow seems smoother and more logical. Of course, it's a much older and more mature daw so they've had plenty of time to sort out their niggles.

Otoh, there are things that I prefer about bitwig (controller Api, modulation system, layered editing, nested devices, some really clever devices, sample accurate pdc etc). I am gonna spend some time with both to see which one I'll stick with. Another factor that will be very important here is the midi clock stability, to sync my external hardware. From what I've heard, bitwig midi clock is pretty tight (though it can only be master, yet) while Ableton's is all over the place. Will have to do my own testing.

I really want to like bitwig, and there are some things about it I already like a lot, but a demo of Live was enough to make me at least consider switching, as it just seemed a lot smoother and logical and easier to get things done, even though I am actually more familiar with Bitwig at this point in time. I'm gonna sit tight till 1.2 and then decide.

Andrei Marchenko · Post by **Andrei Marchenko** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:31 pm

maschinelf wrote: I really like bitwig, and want to keep liking it. But I keep coming across small things that I find very frustrating and workflow killers.

Yes mate. Same thoughts...

dplduffy · Post by **dplduffy** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Personally, I don't understand the hate with Bitwigs Piano Roll. I've used FL Studio (pretty extensively until I got a Mac) and, yes, it does have the best piano roll out there, but I can't say that I've hit any "showstoppers" with Bitwig.

As far as general bitwig goes, I find the simplicity of it actually helps me focus on the music. I understand where people are coming from with wanting more, but coming from Cubase (which I've had since SX1) I love the fact that there aren't 8 billion menus to click through. There are some things that are missing (group tracks) but I can live with it.

I guess in my case it's more of a "lesser of two evils" thing. There will never be a PERFECT daw that has everything I want. I'm also content using workarounds as long as I get the same functionality. For now at least bitwig offers the perfect compromise of features and usability.

And just a side note (just because it's one of my big beefs with live) anything that is synced to the transport tempo inside Ableton (beat delay, lfo tool, etc) is still not automation latency compensated.

Phorous · Post by **Phorous** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:37 pm

dplduffy wrote: As far as general bitwig goes, I find the simplicity of it actually helps me focus on the music. I understand where people are coming from with wanting more, but coming from Cubase (which I've had since SX1) I love the fact that there aren't 8 billion menus to click through. There are some things that are missing (group tracks) but I can live with it.

I love that about Bitwig as well, it does lend itself to quick experimentation and songwriting by minimizing this type of thing. However, I personally find when I have "intent" and am not experimenting I don't mind going through a few menus to lay out the track with the exact parameters I want. Obviously you can't have it all, everything is a tradeoff and you should make the most of what features the DAW you use offers.

Once Bitwig fixes its workflow inconsistencies I definitely plan on using it for more than just dance music again.

dplduffy · Post by **dplduffy** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:42 pm

Voice303 wrote:
dplduffy wrote: As far as general bitwig goes, I find the simplicity of it actually helps me focus on the music. I understand where people are coming from with wanting more, but coming from Cubase (which I've had since SX1) I love the fact that there aren't 8 billion menus to click through. There are some things that are missing (group tracks) but I can live with it.
I love that about Bitwig as well, it does lend itself to quick experimentation and songwriting by minimizing this type of thing. However, I personally find when I have "intent" and am not experimenting I don't mind going through a few menus to lay out the track with the exact parameters I want.

Yes I agree with this 100%. When I have a song in my head I need to get down, I'm in Cubase no questions asked. I know the workflow so much better and how to get the exact sound I want. I guess I normally don't have any ideas in my head these days, so that's why I'm always experimenting in bitwig

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:30 pm

dplduffy wrote:Personally, I don't understand the hate with Bitwigs Piano Roll. I've used FL Studio (pretty extensively until I got a Mac) and, yes, it does have the best piano roll out there, but I can't say that I've hit any "showstoppers" with Bitwig.

piano roll in Sonar 2015 is bit better, they copied all the functionalities of FL (right click delete, have audition-scrub tool etc. )and added some more too (like settable scale handling etc. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfl_NfGMoS0

Regnas · Post by **Regnas** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:55 pm

xbitz wrote:piano roll in Sonar 2015 is bit better, they copied all the functionalities of FL (right click delete, have audition-scrub tool etc. )and added some more too (like settable scale handling etc. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfl_NfGMoS0

Now it's time for Bitwig to copy....

Why they didn't until now???

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Annoying showstopper in piano roll.. :/