Bitwig2 cv devices, which devices will work?

[Markus12x34]

I am using Bitwig with modular synths. Bitwig2 seems to offer nice features with hw cv instrument and hw cv out. Can someone help me out? I am confused.

1. Does any audio interface work as a cv out device? Like Behringer UMC 1820 has 8 outs available after the 2 used for master out. If there are specific requirements for the audio interface, is there a list of devices that will work? People seem to use only Expert Sleeper's devices...

2. If basicly only Expert Sleeper's devices work can I use both a say ES3 and a my current audio interface at the same time? Isn't it so that only one audio interface can be used at a time?

BR,
Markus

[linkstate]

I think Bitwig should join to some hw devs (Bastl Instruments? Expert Sleepers?) and make some easy and cheap device that will work tightly with Bitwig CV device and modular world.
For starters into modular it will be very pleasing (you can buy desktop semi modular) and also for experts (who already ows similar modules in hw form) it can expand and incorporate SW "modules" (modulation) into their other modules at low expense and with recallability of SW "presets".
Windows has no audio device grouping so it should be some other device driver or you can use Asio4all (not professional). I am sure that some day it will be done by Bitwig or other DAW.

[SLiC]

I bought an es-8 as it is probably the simplest way to get 8 out 4 in over USB and it is very much 'plug and play' and I don't have ADAT output from my desk (X32). This won't aggravate under Windows but I have decided I would do all my modular stuff and record it via the Ed-8 then switch back to my main sound card - not ideal, I may try intigrating using for ASIO4all depending if jatency is affected.

If your audio card has soared ADAT outputs and inputs there are more options and you can use your main audio io to drive expert sleepers ADAT to CV.

To me the ultimate solution would be Windows being able to aggregate or something like electron overbridge or virus TI (that somehow does seem to aggregate/integrate)

[very angry mobster]

1. Does any audio interface work as a cv out device?

AFAIK it's fine to use any audio interface as a CV source. However there are two problems:
a) Most interfaces filter out DC signals, so any constant CV values will be filtered out. Fast LFO signals will be ok but square LFOs will not be square anymore. (There is a list of interfaces that don't filter out DC signals on the Expert Sleepers site AFAIK.)
b) Eurorack CV is 20 volts peak to peak. (-10..+10). Generally audio interfaces don't put out such a hot signal.

There are ways around both of these problems if you don't need precise CV out.

2. If basicly only Expert Sleeper's devices work can I use both a say ES3 and a my current audio interface at the same time? Isn't it so that only one audio interface can be used at a time?

Mac's can make use of multiple interfaces at once. Maybe multiple interfaces can be used on Windows with Asio4All (but I don't have any experience with that).

If your existing soundcard has ADAT in/out, grab the Expert Sleepers ES3 and ES6 modules. Both modules have ADAT connections. On Windows the modules are just more audio outputs and inputs.

I have both the ES3 and ES6 modules and would recommend them. I don't know an easier way to get a few channels of CV in/out on Windows. The CV integration in Bitwig is pretty good too.

I hope Bitwig adds a CV to MIDI module soon so we can use modular sequencers like Intellijel's Metropolis.

[SLiC]

Just a bit more feedback on the ES-8 for anyone who is interested:

Without ADAT/Expansions you get 4 CV or Audio source in' to Bitwig (for example, feeding a hardware LFO to drive a software instruments modulation). To do this you use the 'modulators' and select 'hardware CV'

You also get 8 'out' from Bitwig. As I am on windows and cant aggregate my I/O (haven't tried AISO4ALL) I simply use outputs 7/8 as speaker outputs (master) in Bitwig and these are pluged in to my monitors (actulay 2 inputs to my mixer, but it achieves the same thing)

That leaves me 6 CV outs from Bitwig, plenty for fun; I can drive 1/v octave (pitch), gate, lfo, envelope- just about any sort of modulation out to the Modular in perfect time....

I can also throw in Reactor for Euclidian sequencers and all kinds of freaky advanced modules.

[ss8826]

As long as you have enough devices like the es-3 that output cv signals from another protocal, you could have as many as u want . DirectOut has a few converter boxes that take various signal protocals and convert them to ADAT, possibly RME as well. I use a RMe madi FX pcie card connected to a antelope audio orion 32, which converts the madi fx signals into ADAT, then leading to a Expert sleepers es-3 module.You wouldn't need it to be so complicated though, the EXBOX device has 8 ADAT outputs , 8 signals out each output, so thats 8 es-3 devices you could use simultaneously ( if u had a eurorack setup the size of a submarine of course).I think as along as you had a discrete device that converts its inputs to ADAT like DirectOut's EXBOX , you would eliminate all the headache involved with figuring out the signal stuff.

EDIT: Unless theres a maximum limit on how many CV devices bitwig can output? I assume it would be limitless because cv signals are just the same as audio, but I might be wrong?

[justin3am]

Here is a list, from the Expert Sleepers website, of audio interfaces which are known to have DC coupled outputs: http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwacompatibility.html

Of course the Expert Sleepers modules (ES-3, ES-4, ES-40, ES-8, various expanders) can also be used to send CV and these options are very nice because they put out +/-10v (20v pp) so they have a very wide range, where most of the interfaces in the link above will put out <8v pp.

It's possible to use rectifier cables with Bitwig's AC encoding features to get DC signals out of any audio interface. I plan to make a video which details the process of making these cables and using the AC encoding features. You can find more info about rectifier cables and AC encoding here: http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwaacencoder.html

Here is an affordable solution for using the Expert Sleepers ES-3 and ES-6: https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-au ... reamer-box

I should also mention that DC coupled inputs are much more uncommon that DC coupled outputs. As far as I know, the only options are the Expert Sleepers modules, which is a shame because controlling plug-ins with CV is a LOT of fun! Luckily, I have an ES-6 to use with my ES-3.

[knobsturner]

I should also mention that DC coupled inputs are much more uncommon that DC coupled outputs. As far as I know, the only options are the Expert Sleepers modules, which is a shame because controlling plug-ins with CV is a LOT of fun! Luckily, I have an ES-6 to use with my ES-3.

My Universal Audio interfaces seem to be DC coupled for both inputs and outputs (with an easy button to switch DC filtering on or off per-input).

[Markus12x34]

Thanks everybody!

I found especially the list of dc-coupled audio interfaces very useful. I needed a proper audio interface anyway. I was using TR-8. Thus I bought Motu Ultralight mk3 and it works just great. The same device can be used for both audio and cv (both input and output). It offers nice internal routing options - I can listen to all my hardware using its monitoring headphones when my PC is not on.

The negative side is that you need to locate the audio interface next to the modular. (In this respect the Expert Sleeper's modules definitely have an edge). I am able to locate the audio interface on top of my modular case. I bought 10x 6,3 to 3,5 mm adapters and 10x one meter 3,5mm cables (ordered from China, 0,5 € a piece) for easy access.

[SLiC]

One more post on the ES-8 now I have spent more time with it...
Set up AISO4All (this should be built in to Bitwig to aggregate audio devices natively on Windows.....) and it works a charm!

I have an X32 (desk) USB IO that was set to 32 in/out, I select this and the ES-8 and all the desk and ES-8 inputs were there at the same time with no increase in latency! Simply magic...modular CV control in and out and direct recording of the modular to audio tracks without loosing my original interface!

[justin3am]

One more post on the ES-8 now I have spent more time with it...
Set up AISO4All (this should be built in to Bitwig to aggregate audio devices natively on Windows.....) and it works a charm!

I have an X32 (desk) USB IO that was set to 32 in/out, I select this and the ES-8 and all the desk and ES-8 inputs were there at the same time with no increase in latency! Simply magic...modular CV control in and out and direct recording of the modular to audio tracks without loosing my original interface!

I hear there can be issues with dropped samples, if you combine devices like this without having a shared Sample Rate clock signal. I've certainly encountered that with Aggregate Devices in OSX but I'm not sure about ASIO4All. If it happens it will result in intermittent clicking in the audio when it happens, the effect can be much more pronounced when using outputs to generate CV.
Maybe you haven't encountered anything like that. Does the X32 have ADAT I/O? If so, you might wanna sync the ES-8 to the X32 or vice-versa, just in case. I use WC I/O on my interfaces to keep their sample rates synced.

[SLiC]

One more post on the ES-8 now I have spent more time with it...
Set up AISO4All (this should be built in to Bitwig to aggregate audio devices natively on Windows.....) and it works a charm!

I have an X32 (desk) USB IO that was set to 32 in/out, I select this and the ES-8 and all the desk and ES-8 inputs were there at the same time with no increase in latency! Simply magic...modular CV control in and out and direct recording of the modular to audio tracks without loosing my original interface!

I hear there can be issues with dropped samples, if you combine devices like this without having a shared Sample Rate clock signal. I've certainly encountered that with Aggregate Devices in OSX but I'm not sure about ASIO4All. If it happens it will result in intermittent clicking in the audio when it happens, the effect can be much more pronounced when using outputs to generate CV.
Maybe you haven't encountered anything like that. Does the X32 have ADAT I/O? If so, you might wanna sync the ES-8 to the X32 or vice-versa, just in case. I use WC I/O on my interfaces to keep their sample rates synced.

I haven't come across any issues yet. I have the Beringer X32 desk with USB only AISO (no ADAT) and the ES-8 is being used only as a USB AISO device as well, so I am not using ADAT on that yet either (unless I expand it). I have run the outputs to my modular scope (Mordax Data ) and I don't see any problems....

I am also using CV tools stand alone with the ES-8 so its all CV control (again, just USB AISO) and Bitwig running at the same time on the X32 USB I/O (windows runs both quite happily at the same time) simply recording the analogue out from my Modular in to the X32 analogue inputs...

[justin3am]

That's interesting, I'll have to do some experiments with ASIO4All.
Since each interface has it's own sample rate clock, even if they are running at the same sample rate, the clocks may be out of phase. The driver can only reference one of those clocks so if one is out of phase with the other, you can encounter problems with dropped samples.

I used to encounter that a lot when using two un-synced interfaces. When using one interface for CV, it would result in a sudden, momentary jump in pitch or erroneous triggers, every hour or so. I didn't even have to be passing signals back and forth between the two. I ran into the same issue with a few different interfaces. Once I had the two interfaces using a common sample rate clock the problem went away.

Here's hoping it was just bad luck on my part and you never have to deal with that issue.