DoubleDawg - woah! great find
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2107 posts since 12 May, 2003 from gone
wow, this is the coolest 'upgrade' i've had in a long time
a thread in the RMS forum talked about a tool to help troubleshoot videocard-related audio problems, and it led me to this page.
This guy's product, DoubleDawg, shows you the PCI-bus latency of all the devices in your system, and lets you edit the values - normally windows takes control of these (regardless what you set in your mobo's bios)
although my system has always run rock solid, no problems recording, etc., i'm a hardware junkie so I read all this stuff, and tried out this guy's tool
on my machine, all pci-interfaced devices were reporting either 0-latency or 32ms latency....except my GeForce4 card, which was at 256ms latency
now this is wierd as i can run doom3 in widescreen very damn well
it's important to note that this pci bus latency is different from the asio latency we associate with our audio cards. it doesn't mean that there's a 256ms lag from my vidcard when i send it an instruction. Instead, in this case, it basically means how long a device can 'hog' the bus, before another device can be polled
with higher latency, the bus can start to clog with instructions for the high-latency 'hogging' device, and this can effect other devices that utilize some part of the bus for communication....hence stuttering audio when your fancy GUI's fake VU meter needles start wagging around (in some cases anyway, i never had these problems on the current machine)
anyway, long story short time: I changed my vidcard's pci latency from 256 to 64 with the tool, and i was able to cut my asio latency in HALF without sacrificing stability and performance. I'm certain it was this change, as I have done many tests in the past to be certain that i've lowered my asio buffers as much as i can and still have a stable system. i just cut those figures in half
this guy's tool is free, but you have to restart it each time you launch windows, and re-set the latency value.
he's got a version for $10 that sets it automatically for you at bootup time. I didn't even consider buying it, i went for the freebie....and was blown away by the results, so i went for the ten dollar splurge. bargain....best vst 'accessory' ever...go try it out, i think you'll be really happy you found this
not trying to spam the board or be a pimp or anything, i rarely make recommendations on anything, and never start threads pimping, but i've never heard this mentioned before and i'm really really glad i found it. just wanna share the luv yo
a thread in the RMS forum talked about a tool to help troubleshoot videocard-related audio problems, and it led me to this page.
This guy's product, DoubleDawg, shows you the PCI-bus latency of all the devices in your system, and lets you edit the values - normally windows takes control of these (regardless what you set in your mobo's bios)
although my system has always run rock solid, no problems recording, etc., i'm a hardware junkie so I read all this stuff, and tried out this guy's tool
on my machine, all pci-interfaced devices were reporting either 0-latency or 32ms latency....except my GeForce4 card, which was at 256ms latency
now this is wierd as i can run doom3 in widescreen very damn well
it's important to note that this pci bus latency is different from the asio latency we associate with our audio cards. it doesn't mean that there's a 256ms lag from my vidcard when i send it an instruction. Instead, in this case, it basically means how long a device can 'hog' the bus, before another device can be polled
with higher latency, the bus can start to clog with instructions for the high-latency 'hogging' device, and this can effect other devices that utilize some part of the bus for communication....hence stuttering audio when your fancy GUI's fake VU meter needles start wagging around (in some cases anyway, i never had these problems on the current machine)
anyway, long story short time: I changed my vidcard's pci latency from 256 to 64 with the tool, and i was able to cut my asio latency in HALF without sacrificing stability and performance. I'm certain it was this change, as I have done many tests in the past to be certain that i've lowered my asio buffers as much as i can and still have a stable system. i just cut those figures in half
this guy's tool is free, but you have to restart it each time you launch windows, and re-set the latency value.
he's got a version for $10 that sets it automatically for you at bootup time. I didn't even consider buying it, i went for the freebie....and was blown away by the results, so i went for the ten dollar splurge. bargain....best vst 'accessory' ever...go try it out, i think you'll be really happy you found this
not trying to spam the board or be a pimp or anything, i rarely make recommendations on anything, and never start threads pimping, but i've never heard this mentioned before and i'm really really glad i found it. just wanna share the luv yo
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
i just had the program check my system.
my 3 devices, and their latencies, were:
32 = nForce2AGP Host to PCI Bridge
192 = DSP5630124-Bit Digital Signal Processor
248 = NV11GeForce2MX / MX 400
so...what do you think i should change the latter 2 to and how can i test to see if there is an improvement?
-ugo
my 3 devices, and their latencies, were:
32 = nForce2AGP Host to PCI Bridge
192 = DSP5630124-Bit Digital Signal Processor
248 = NV11GeForce2MX / MX 400
so...what do you think i should change the latter 2 to and how can i test to see if there is an improvement?
-ugo
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2107 posts since 12 May, 2003 from gone
yep, if that's your asio card, let it be a bushog
the vidcard is taking too much time though, same as mine was
i set mine to 64, and i see a very big gain in asio performance
and no noticible change in video performance, still runs Doom3 just as well
have a GeForce4 here
the vidcard is taking too much time though, same as mine was
i set mine to 64, and i see a very big gain in asio performance
and no noticible change in video performance, still runs Doom3 just as well
have a GeForce4 here
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- KVRian
- 1350 posts since 3 May, 2003 from California USA
Hey, very cool tip. Thanks Laser!
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 29 Jul, 2004
I've tried quite a few PCI latency tools, and this one is probably the best, loads the latencies on startup etc. Ignore the description, works with any card.
I've seen many people have problems with pops and clicks which can be fixed by tweaking these, especially with onboard SATA controllers (which are on the PCI bus) and as mentioned with graphics cards. this is a great source of info on the subject.
I've seen many people have problems with pops and clicks which can be fixed by tweaking these, especially with onboard SATA controllers (which are on the PCI bus) and as mentioned with graphics cards. this is a great source of info on the subject.
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- KVRian
- 1206 posts since 10 Apr, 2002 from Born, living and probably dying in Germany
Aren´t most video cards AGP-cards today?
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- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 31 Oct, 2002 from the high desert
indeed,but-
"I will note that the AGP device is on its own special superpowered PCI bus wired straight into the CPU and memory, but it does share some sort of resources with the PCI bus containing the sound card, which is why reducing its latency value can improve the sound performance on a music computer. "
from the doubledawg author...
"I will note that the AGP device is on its own special superpowered PCI bus wired straight into the CPU and memory, but it does share some sort of resources with the PCI bus containing the sound card, which is why reducing its latency value can improve the sound performance on a music computer. "
from the doubledawg author...
- KVRAF
- 8997 posts since 1 Aug, 2003
I have both a Yamaha SW1000XG and a STAudio C-Port installed. They're both at 32ms. I guess this means having 2 cards slows 'em down.
My g550 vid card is at 64ms
I'll have to check the lappie too.
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 20 Nov, 2003
Would adjusting the "AGP aperture" in bios have any effect on system hogging by the video card? Options in my bios are: 32MB, 64MB, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB, and I'm currently on 256 but don't know what the implications are.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 29 Jul, 2004
The best guide for general BIOS settings is here:
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=9
I won't bother pasting the AGP Aperature section in, but take a look
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=9
I won't bother pasting the AGP Aperature section in, but take a look
- KVRian
- 1202 posts since 8 May, 2003 from Munich
Chrisboy,Chrisyboy wrote:I've tried quite a few PCI latency tools, and this one is probably the best, loads the latencies on startup etc. Ignore the description, works with any card.
I'm having the issue that in XP this tool refuses to load the settings on boo, it complains 'driver couldnt be loaded' - then I gotta open it, and hit apply manually. On Win2k its working fine, loading the settings on-boot and all.
Any ideas how to fix this?
thanks in advance
Markus
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- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
Thanks for the info.
The utility found 10 devices on my machine, but none of them being my soundcard.
The utility found 10 devices on my machine, but none of them being my soundcard.