Korg Legacy Collection - still killing it 10 years later
-
- KVRAF
- 7877 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Yeah, I found that out the hard way. I went through and deleted all of the VST2 versions, as I assumed the VST3 versions were complete. Then discovered none of them worked and I had to go back and reinstall the whole lot all over again. Did that twice before I twigged that the VST3 must refer to the VST2 version.
-
thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 35191 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
Ouch!
-
- KVRist
- 165 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
I kept trying to figure out why the Korg stuff didn't sound as good on my system as it did in the youtube videos posted. Turns out i had to figure out how to run it inside the MPC and now it is stunning. Took all day though.
-
- KVRer
- 14 posts since 1 May, 2020
Do you mean inside MPC Beats? Can you say anything about what the difference was? I've not used MPC but I'm curious if there's some kind of secret sauce when it comes to the Korg Collection.
-
- KVRAF
- 35297 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
#metoo - just had to reinstall the older oneskritikon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:56 pm Yeah, I found that out the hard way. I went through and deleted all of the VST2 versions, as I assumed the VST3 versions were complete. Then discovered none of them worked and I had to go back and reinstall the whole lot all over again. Did that twice before I twigged that the VST3 must refer to the VST2 version.
-
- KVRAF
- 10361 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
The old plugins are exceptionally well coded in my opinion. They are tremendous value even still today. They are some of the very few plugins from such a long time ago that are completely samplerate agnostic. This means that in a DAW like Reaper or with utility plugins like DDMF Metaplugin you can easily oversample them as much as you like. At 16x oversampling the Polysix, Monopoly and MS-20 can do really difficult tasks like sweeping filters with high resonance with absolute ease.. and they do it without completely wiping out the CPU resources too.
Also don't sleep on the MDE-X effects unit. The reverbs and delays are really usable and the compressor can be absolutely awesome in that early 00's kind of way but with the added benefit you get if you oversample it 16x.
So yeah, I've been extremely impressed by these old goodies. They are superb!
Also don't sleep on the MDE-X effects unit. The reverbs and delays are really usable and the compressor can be absolutely awesome in that early 00's kind of way but with the added benefit you get if you oversample it 16x.
So yeah, I've been extremely impressed by these old goodies. They are superb!
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
-
- KVRist
- 165 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
Sure thing. So I had a lot of variables to account for in trying to get the best out of the Korg VSTs, and other ones as well. Here is a list of themyfragileego wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 9:37 amDo you mean inside MPC Beats? Can you say anything about what the difference was? I've not used MPC but I'm curious if there's some kind of secret sauce when it comes to the Korg Collection.
variables:
01 midi keyboard controllers.
02 keyboard velocity settings on Logic channel strip
03 default volume sliders/channel faders
04 default channel strip settings
05 plug in routing
06 DAW/au/vst default eq and overall sonic quality
07 midi controller knobs and wheels
08 plug in patch to patch sound levels
back in a minute with more details of how i figured it out
-
- KVRist
- 165 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
ok, i'm back.
01 i have 2 midi controllers. one is a cheap m audio keystation 49, the other a casio psx 3000 88 note weighted. the m audio controller sends out a higher velocity by 20 or so than the casio. the casio has several master keyboard velocity settings...normal, heavy 1, heavy 2, light 1, light 2. i found that the cheap m audio keyboard got better results on drum sounds particularly and sucked on most of the piano and EP sounds. The Casio only really sounded ok on the "normal" velocity setting. sounds great on vst piano sounds, but awful on the Korg arp odyssey. i'm running both controllers on the same midi channel and never changed any midi channels during my tests.
02 logic pro has a channel strip plug in called "midi fx" and at the bottom of the midi fx is a velocity processor. i enabled that on the logic channel strip, and messed around for hours trying to get the korg stuff to sing. results were meh.
03 if i had played around at all with the volume slider on the m audio keyboard and then played from the casio, old slider values impacted the sound when playing the same korg patch from the casio. so i had to remember to always reset the m audio slider to full.
channel strip faders have different throw to them, some of them have little change when the fader is on the lower side and then suddenly ramp up in a certain area, had to learn how that impacts the vst sound with different slider settings.
04 are you still with me? i'm on default channel strip settings now..
so when i finally opened up the MPC beats software with a session i had already been working on, i went through all the hoops to get the korg instruments to come up on the MPC mixer. there were already compressors and eq's on my MPC session, and that had an impact as well once i got the Triton going. which leads me to
05 about the plug in routing. i created a logic channel strip with the Electribe running as vst or au whatever you want to name it, and then i created a channel strip in logic with MPC as the instrument, then inside the MPC the Korg Electribe running on a mixer channel. I set up a 4 bar loop sequence and started listening, going back and forth A/B tests.
06 i had no eq on either channel strip, just default channel strips, eq, no compression, made sure my MPC had no external modifiers. and this is where i noticed some huge differences. the channel running Korg directly into Logic then the master bus was almost 8 db softer than the Korg running inside MPC. I used the gain plug in in Logic to balance out the levels so they were pretty close.
the electribe directly on logic was loud enough now, but the sound of it left me cold. all i could feel was manbuns,soy milk, vapid thin EDM, empowerment, and thinness. blech. some sort of mid high frequency annoyance that i couldn't pin down...started doubting my masculinity and had to go find a safe space..almost reached out for a KVR therapist..
the MPC channel though was amazing. the Electribe kicks were full and knocking HARD. the top end 600 hz-20khz had some sort of fatness as well that wasn't harsh or thin and all the sudden i felt ghettos, chicken wings, nike sports wear and the NBA. that is exactly what i was looking for. okay..on to
07 All in all, Korg has done an amazing job with the plug in suite. when i pulled up the M1 inside the MPC God came right into my studio and said hello. The M1 running inside an MPC is sonic beauty....however, neither of my knobs on the casio controller did anything, nothing. when i pulled up the Triton though, both knobs were already mapped to filter cutoff and filter resonance so that was awesome. using the mod wheel on the key station 49 had great results, and my setup has two pitch bend wheels i could re route if i wanted to do anymore work.
08 still with me? lol...so one of the things a never liked about Korg or any company for that matter, is the huge difference in levels from patch to patch, program to program, multi to multi, etc. i would have some mellow orch patch going then switch to a korg drum kit and almost blow the speakers out because the drums were so f**king too much louder. you have to watch this sort of thing because the variance in volume can be huge with Korg, not as bad with Roland or Air tech.
so, wrapping up...i concluded that when you watch a video of someone doing a demo of a korg plugin, keyscape, xenology, etc, few of those demo guys explain in detail what the gear is as i've done here. it mostly stops at how much ram, what type of computer, etc. these other things make a big difference and i hope my explanation of how i got to making Korg sound great helps you out. for some reason, the overall TONE of logic pro is far inferior to Akai products. Akai has a sound, a vibe, ableton, FL studio, they all have different components under the hood that add a color and you can hear it. i only wish Logic as a standard DAW had some sort of better (to my ears) fatness and vibe to the sound. what my goal was in all this messing around was to find a big phat vibey sound on all of my instruments as much as possible without having to add anything to the channel strips. I just want to open any one of my instruments and feel inspired every time. not as easy as it looks on youtube.
01 i have 2 midi controllers. one is a cheap m audio keystation 49, the other a casio psx 3000 88 note weighted. the m audio controller sends out a higher velocity by 20 or so than the casio. the casio has several master keyboard velocity settings...normal, heavy 1, heavy 2, light 1, light 2. i found that the cheap m audio keyboard got better results on drum sounds particularly and sucked on most of the piano and EP sounds. The Casio only really sounded ok on the "normal" velocity setting. sounds great on vst piano sounds, but awful on the Korg arp odyssey. i'm running both controllers on the same midi channel and never changed any midi channels during my tests.
02 logic pro has a channel strip plug in called "midi fx" and at the bottom of the midi fx is a velocity processor. i enabled that on the logic channel strip, and messed around for hours trying to get the korg stuff to sing. results were meh.
03 if i had played around at all with the volume slider on the m audio keyboard and then played from the casio, old slider values impacted the sound when playing the same korg patch from the casio. so i had to remember to always reset the m audio slider to full.
channel strip faders have different throw to them, some of them have little change when the fader is on the lower side and then suddenly ramp up in a certain area, had to learn how that impacts the vst sound with different slider settings.
04 are you still with me? i'm on default channel strip settings now..
so when i finally opened up the MPC beats software with a session i had already been working on, i went through all the hoops to get the korg instruments to come up on the MPC mixer. there were already compressors and eq's on my MPC session, and that had an impact as well once i got the Triton going. which leads me to
05 about the plug in routing. i created a logic channel strip with the Electribe running as vst or au whatever you want to name it, and then i created a channel strip in logic with MPC as the instrument, then inside the MPC the Korg Electribe running on a mixer channel. I set up a 4 bar loop sequence and started listening, going back and forth A/B tests.
06 i had no eq on either channel strip, just default channel strips, eq, no compression, made sure my MPC had no external modifiers. and this is where i noticed some huge differences. the channel running Korg directly into Logic then the master bus was almost 8 db softer than the Korg running inside MPC. I used the gain plug in in Logic to balance out the levels so they were pretty close.
the electribe directly on logic was loud enough now, but the sound of it left me cold. all i could feel was manbuns,soy milk, vapid thin EDM, empowerment, and thinness. blech. some sort of mid high frequency annoyance that i couldn't pin down...started doubting my masculinity and had to go find a safe space..almost reached out for a KVR therapist..
the MPC channel though was amazing. the Electribe kicks were full and knocking HARD. the top end 600 hz-20khz had some sort of fatness as well that wasn't harsh or thin and all the sudden i felt ghettos, chicken wings, nike sports wear and the NBA. that is exactly what i was looking for. okay..on to
07 All in all, Korg has done an amazing job with the plug in suite. when i pulled up the M1 inside the MPC God came right into my studio and said hello. The M1 running inside an MPC is sonic beauty....however, neither of my knobs on the casio controller did anything, nothing. when i pulled up the Triton though, both knobs were already mapped to filter cutoff and filter resonance so that was awesome. using the mod wheel on the key station 49 had great results, and my setup has two pitch bend wheels i could re route if i wanted to do anymore work.
08 still with me? lol...so one of the things a never liked about Korg or any company for that matter, is the huge difference in levels from patch to patch, program to program, multi to multi, etc. i would have some mellow orch patch going then switch to a korg drum kit and almost blow the speakers out because the drums were so f**king too much louder. you have to watch this sort of thing because the variance in volume can be huge with Korg, not as bad with Roland or Air tech.
so, wrapping up...i concluded that when you watch a video of someone doing a demo of a korg plugin, keyscape, xenology, etc, few of those demo guys explain in detail what the gear is as i've done here. it mostly stops at how much ram, what type of computer, etc. these other things make a big difference and i hope my explanation of how i got to making Korg sound great helps you out. for some reason, the overall TONE of logic pro is far inferior to Akai products. Akai has a sound, a vibe, ableton, FL studio, they all have different components under the hood that add a color and you can hear it. i only wish Logic as a standard DAW had some sort of better (to my ears) fatness and vibe to the sound. what my goal was in all this messing around was to find a big phat vibey sound on all of my instruments as much as possible without having to add anything to the channel strips. I just want to open any one of my instruments and feel inspired every time. not as easy as it looks on youtube.
-
- KVRian
- 964 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from USA
I use the m1 wave station and triton constantly. To
Me the sound of the triton is better. I usually have issues mixing some sounds from the wave station and I typically layer them with something else. The triton sounds fantastic.
My only issue is in bitwig the mode plugins sometimes just stop working. It may be due to the vst3 wrapper thing you all mentioned. I’ll try the vst2s.
Me the sound of the triton is better. I usually have issues mixing some sounds from the wave station and I typically layer them with something else. The triton sounds fantastic.
My only issue is in bitwig the mode plugins sometimes just stop working. It may be due to the vst3 wrapper thing you all mentioned. I’ll try the vst2s.
-
- KVRist
- 136 posts since 24 Nov, 2023
The Triton and M1 plugins are fantastic and blow the Roland JV and XV plugins away. What's really nice is that Korg gives you all the sample expansions included instead of having them all as separate products. Not only is that better for you wallet but expands the sound design options as you can mix
They also sound great when sampled and replayed in other instruments especially CMI V from Arturia
They also sound great when sampled and replayed in other instruments especially CMI V from Arturia
-
- KVRer
- 14 posts since 1 May, 2020
-
- KVRist
- 165 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
Thank you so much - I really appreciate all the info you shared. It's so fascinating to hear how you went about it and the difference it made. I am looking forward to trying those settings out myself to compare!
[/quote]
Great! back in the day, we would all go to music stores and play the keyboards and be blown away at how amazing the gear was. Korg was always at the top, and they were the most expensive, way out of my price range and hugely overpriced. Now that you can just download everything, a whole new world of possibilities good and bad come in to play. I had to laugh when I started listening to the Korg presets again on vst after all these years. they are drenched in "music store customer" reverb that the programmers put on there just for the shoppers at the music store (to great excess). Hope you get your setup working the way you like. I am amazed that I can get 14 Korg instruments for under 400 bucks and I will be using them to death.
[/quote]
Great! back in the day, we would all go to music stores and play the keyboards and be blown away at how amazing the gear was. Korg was always at the top, and they were the most expensive, way out of my price range and hugely overpriced. Now that you can just download everything, a whole new world of possibilities good and bad come in to play. I had to laugh when I started listening to the Korg presets again on vst after all these years. they are drenched in "music store customer" reverb that the programmers put on there just for the shoppers at the music store (to great excess). Hope you get your setup working the way you like. I am amazed that I can get 14 Korg instruments for under 400 bucks and I will be using them to death.
-
- KVRist
- 93 posts since 5 Jan, 2008 from Atlanta
That is way too tight of a restriction and sometimes it is relevant to comment old information.
There could be a bug a company isn't fixing and let's say it's been 10 years, it would be helpful to show the 10 year old historical evidence. I tend to enjoy reading old commentary anyways and sometimes find it helpful to reply later.
Whether to lock a thread is something that should be looked at on a case by case basis.
