M4L/ RNBO vs Plugdata/Pd

[Banned]

What are your experience or thoughts on Plugdata in comparison to M4L?
Do u prefer one over nother or use only one, or both?

I ve skipped Architect since it has no noticeable update for 3y, no new patch for 2y and is rather midi oriented. Tough it is capable to handle computations, which is Grid simply not - Grid cannot do 1 + 1 successively and hence even cannot make a dynamic clock. That is why is Grid skipped too, tough it is pretty cool for many stuff.

Have a good one.

[SLiC]

Never used PlugData, I assume its built on Puredata which I did use a bit before using MAX.
They all look very similar (all derived from puredata I think), but I use MAX for the native support in Live, the supurrb learning resources, sheer amount of patches available and its frequently updated/new libraires/bug fixing etc. You often get what you pay for, PD stuff can be drooped at any time and left with bugs! Max also has RNBO so you can covert MAX to VSTs and run on Pis etc. I feel confident with Ableton/Max that there will be continues updates...that counts for a lot with software!

[Banned]

My feeling about these two:
Since post is already too long & without discussion, I am no longer adding to it, just keep in mind that I am not redactor and am relatively new to M4L. So take it all with grain of salt and mainly, the bottom line is, that at this point those devices are at parity (90 % of basic object the same), with its own pros, cons..

Plugdata has only few libraries - despite they r more than sufficient, one may argue: why limit yourself when u don't have to..

Plugdata recently 3. 2024 added GEM - so graphic display can finally be made.

Price for tighter patching integration into DAW in M4L is obviously limitation to one (quite otherwise minimalistic) DAW and cause of that it is also more problematic/ almost impossible to share patch outside its DAW user-base.
From musical point generally - Plugdata seems to have more sense.. but if u more patch modulation, envelopes, note in/ out then do them thru DAW, then this close system is blessing.
For modulation out of Plugdata u can use MIDI channel now and imo soon MidiCC .
But just Diva has 285 parameters to fully use its potential u really need control over most of them..
Also proper control of most of vst parameters thru MIDI/ modulators may imo seriously hit CPU (not cause of Plugdata, but modulators and routing in DAW)..
This also applies for send/ receive, which in M4L works across the tracks, while in BW it not only cannot cross the track, but also cannot be send from one plugin to nother (without using messy ELSE osc.send msg) - not to mention BW doesn't have regular across the track modulation (it can go only from one selected top track across the rest, but those tracks cannot send signal there).

Automatic vst parameter reading - tough I still find it tricky..but at least on paper..

Presentation mode is imo slightly better than Abstractions in Pd (tough u can also make regular abstraction, but this is not the way u standardly do GUI), which force user to double some modules and do more routing. Since M4L does not have GOP tough imo u cannot use doncavasdialog to make expandable/ resizable windows inside device - u can tough make additional win, or make changeable win/ part in device, or expand its length.

Saving/ loading values to text file looks similar- bit more straight forward in M4L - in case u need it.
Preset system is quite essential in patching device, so Pd patcher can start w/ this and this quite tough entry.
Pd missing native Preset system (snapshots) and it gives u heck of a headache to make your own.


Plugdata have imo cool PD_lua, while MAX use codebox w/ Cbased language, Lua for some graphic and think somewhere u can use also Java.
See no clear winner here too. Only looser is BW without scripting, but that would Imo required complete overhaul of Grid. It does not look like simple update.


In the end it is about whatever float your boat.. Imo thnx god that they keep parity for decades.

Since each device has hundreds of relatively same objects, these are sort of minor differences.
Pros for M4L:
In Live number box numbers stay in box after reopening, but ?display only two decimals?.
Number box has optional number of decimals to display - I love this one..
Having hide cables/ connection and other hide/ show setting.. For messy patchers like me blessing.. I think it is common also in Reactor, which also handle cables intensive project much better.. I am sure tough this will be there one day..
Umenu - creates pop up menu.. [i]U can tough create one - check Ben vid on Pd FB.[/i]
Message obj can send its msg to receive objects (yes, more receive obj. and can even select them).
Has filtergraph - displaying filter freq..
Thispatcher object - for swapping wins is imo missing..
Right-click on inlet display possible messages for particular object.

Pros for Pd
Radio can be also horizontal - tough in M4L u can use matrixctrl
For full use of M4L (gen w/ Codebox, some objects etc.) u need pricy MAX, while Plugdata is free..

[DRMR]

Max also has RNBO so you can covert MAX to VSTs and run on Pis etc.

Plugdata comes with the Heavy Compiler toolchain which allows you to export your patches (using a subset of the pd-vanilla language objects) to standalone vst2/3/clap/lv2 plugins and program the Daisy microcontroller straight from our DAW.