Bitwig 5.2 Beta & D3D

[TabSel]

on launch, Splashscreen closes, error message:

Unbenannt.PNG

my system is a quite old audio optimized windows 10 pc with 2 x NVidia NVS300 gfx cards.

any chance to use Bitwig 5.2 and above without the fancy, new, hardware accelerated, popping UI featurette, like, say, Bitwig 5.1.8?

[pdxindy]

It's a beta... report any issues to Bitwig beta email...

[kurt008]

on launch, Splashscreen closes, error message:
Unbenannt.PNG
my system is a quite old audio optimized windows 10 pc with 2 x NVidia NVS300 gfx cards.

any chance to use Bitwig 5.2 and above without the fancy, new, hardware accelerated, popping UI featurette, like, say, Bitwig 5.1.8?

Well, crashes my Debian and my suspect also is this (sorry to speak frankly - completely stupid and unnecessary ) Graphics tweak.
This whole "update" is for me almost a kick in my ass, as it introduces 'gimmicks' which almost completely and trouble-free can be realized using the given devices. And what the hell is such a graphic good for?!?

There are so many features missing or in a poor condition and.. why is it for other DAW programmers a hassle-free task to make a current and well featured DAW without much additional hardware demand?!?!?

To be honest: Either this will be fixed very quickly or my license will be sold. I already had the suspect of something "new" to blind us again (and again and again...). But that they managed it again to make it unusable makes me MAD meanwhile.

Addendum:
I have realized meanwhile (to be honest: I already noticed that yesterday), that Bitwig no longer can be used in new versions by me - and will take care to get something more stable and sustainable.
Good luck to those, who are willing to "afford" Bitwig Studio in the future as well, because I won't.

[kurt008]

It's a beta... report any issues to Bitwig beta email...

I will no longer send bugs - because of several reasons.

[SmajjL]

I would be happy to help confirm something with you following your steps on how to, but i am all AMD and Ubuntu 24.04 and i believe Linus.T have not shown his famous finger at AMD *yet*
Not Everything in life might be Bitwig's fault directly is what i'm saying or, thinking.. but all devs are very interested in Bugs if that's what this is about, hard to see clear when there is a cloud of anger in the way

[JHernandez]

Beta ware make me big mad! Oh phooey!

[kurt008]

I would be happy to help confirm something with you following your steps on how to, but i am all AMD and Ubuntu 24.04 and i believe Linus.T have not shown his famous finger at AMD *yet*
Not Everything in life might be Bitwig's fault directly is what i'm saying or, thinking.. but all devs are very interested in Bugs if that's what this is about, hard to see clear when there is a cloud of anger in the way

Thanks, but not necessary.
Again: There are quite a number of steps BS could be made run much faster, but... I'll leave this more and more silly and expensive race now.
And I'll move to another DAW and most likely to VCV.

[kurt008]

Beta ware make me big mad! Oh phooey!

The compatibility issues are for sure no "Beta" effect. They come from the use of graphics cards (especially GPU's), which in many machines running Linux will fail to work as expected.
Well, good luck - I'm out.

[Jac459]

search.php?keywords=Bitwig+hardware+acc ... mit=Search

Hardware acceleration was one of the big big feature requested for Bitwig and subject to endless debates (frankly I never felt the need).
Apparently people having multiple hi-res screen were struggling.

The number of users of bitwig is growing and as such addressing all the scenarios becomes more and more difficult.

This is the effect you can see in Ableton forums.

[JHernandez]

Beta ware make me big mad! Oh phooey!

The compatibility issues are for sure no "Beta" effect. They come from the use of graphics cards (especially GPU's), which in many machines running Linux will fail to work as expected.
Well, good luck - I'm out.

You're likely overreacting. You seem to get mad/aggravated/whatever pretty easy.

Good luck to you too. It will all work out in the end.

[kurt008]

Beta ware make me big mad! Oh phooey!

The compatibility issues are for sure no "Beta" effect. They come from the use of graphics cards (especially GPU's), which in many machines running Linux will fail to work as expected.
Well, good luck - I'm out.

You're likely overreacting. You seem to get mad/aggravated/whatever pretty easy.

Good luck to you too. It will all work out in the end.

It's nice of you to see it this way, but the simple reason is my never (really at no time) existing satisfaction with Bitwig's policy, which always was based on 'catching new customers" at cost of losing some of the existing ones.

As long as I have known Bitwig they created updates like: 70% +/- new stuff (sometimes even more), 25% fixing bugs and 5% reworking existing devices at least one time, while "small updates" were 90% (not seldom 100%) bug fixing and at maximum 10% for existing flaws. There are so many devices which were "invented and thrown into the nirvana of oblivion". Several other DAW creators don't make software primarily to make "quick money" by "selling and forget", but you might guess, that hardly a seriously working user will want to look for new machines after a few years simply because of one (!) piece of software. Such interests are typical for a "gamer" user type... but there's one little problem here: Hardly many professional producers will want to change their hardware for work like a gamer is willing to kick his gaming machine. Hard daily work is no daily fun laboratory and apart from the money this costs (and which has to be gained most likely using such a machine) it costs time - resources, which are available only in finite amounts.
Simple (but surely realistic!) guess/speculation: Let this "AI-thing" become target of the next generation of Bitwig. It might be only sparsly usable in average projects (the 'famous' Spectral Suite' is a very good example in this regard... it is usable, right. But by far not that 'burner' as advertised that time by Bitwig, if you are really honest), but it - of course - would be a typical "Bitwig-style buyer magnet". This thing needs quite a lot of 'oomph' in a target machine, what most likely touch the limits of existing hardware again. Would you seriously follow that demand once more...? Again: Such a machine is primarily a "workstation" and no fun factory and somebody doing a job is no son/daughter from profession...

Have you ever compared Bitwig Studio's hunger for new hardware with other DAW's (or similar software)? I tried this yesterday with VCV and was astonished... about how "low" VCV's comparable hunger is (in it's latest Beta, btw) and other DAW's as well.

This addiction for "ideally renew everything after at maximum 5 yrs" is typical for Microsoft Windows, but for sure not for Linux. Not a single typical Linux user will follow this "fire and forget" policy, because a typical Linux user (especially if this user came from Windows in former times and got fed up by Microsofts corresponding and - as mentioned - almost completely identical policies) mostly isn't the classical every-day-consumer of almost everything.
As I already mentioned: I even have no idea which graphics cards would actually fulfill Bitwig's hardware greed for the next few years, or do you seriously expect me to rush for buying quickly such a hardware now, throw my own one (which is working trouble-free (as also mentioned) - apart from not fully compatible drivers - only to find out, that Bitwig Studio 5.5 (and let it perhaps be 6.0) 'unfortunately' needs even more hardware one or two years later?!?!? Man, I'm no gambler and no robber, I'm no billionaire and no lottery winner - I have to work for my money. This needs - apart from a reliable working PC - quite some amount of time. I will not waste these resources only to satisfy the ideas of Bitwig, who seem to follow it's unsustainable way of the users "consuming" hard- and software (simply because they are not willing to maintain their software thoroughly). My will to throw Bitwig Studio is caused by their extreme addiction to consume and is everything but a rage of me - this is the simply and unpleasant truth.

I am simply highly disappointed of the company Bitwig. Their 'velocity' in demanding new hardware has reached Microsofts well known level and ... my wish to leave Windows at that time was - a.o. - to leave behind this permanent greed for new and short-living hardware every now and then. As mentioned: Anyway I refuse to buy "pre-installed hardware", because of the work I have to invest to remove unneeded garbage and to (mostly...) find out some further obstacles, which were buried by this garbage software (which also - like the case of Bitwig - only was installed to blind the users intending him to overlook these obstacles and weaknesses).
I seriously doubt, that this highly unsustainable policy of companies like Microsoft and Bitwig will really stand the test of time (which surely will become significantly harder next future...). My will to make music is based on continuity and... such a typical mayfly like Bitwig Studio simply is no help in this respect.

[kurt008]

search.php?keywords=Bitwig+hardware+acc ... mit=Search

Hardware acceleration was one of the big big feature requested for Bitwig and subject to endless debates (frankly I never felt the need).
Apparently people having multiple hi-res screen were struggling.

The number of users of bitwig is growing and as such addressing all the scenarios becomes more and more difficult.

This is the effect you can see in Ableton forums.

To make complicating things simple:
Bitwig Studio is an classic typical Windows type of software and should be advertised as such - that's the point.
It's like a PC game - which also is simply a consume product, but no real part of serious work. Bitwig has - contrary to it's own claims - a veeery tiny community and such "habits" will hardy be suitable to increase it's user base.
The only really interested user of Bitwig is a gamer interested in making a little music or some really rich guy, who can spend, say 10.000 $ out of the purse - if needed - to follow a 'weak idea', even it this happens a few times a month. Such a person can buy a custom built machine and can replace it at any time without the need to work for this money... but the number of persons of that type surely doesn't grow quickly (if at all).

And should I become one of these lucky guys some day in the future... I have a lot of other interesting goals and consumer 'magnets' like Bitwig's Studio won't be part of them and catch my attention once more.

As for this argument of "hardware acceleration":
Surely every real Linux user know the classical weakness of Linux - drivers. And it costs as little as a few minutes to find this out using something like Google. If Bitwig really intends to prefer a user to buy newer, better hardware to make it's software run, this company knows very well, that they will have to cancel their Linux support quite soon, because such an amount of stable drivers simply has never been available.
Btw... they use a very low performant programming language, which shows me, that they simply sacrifice the users resources at their missing will to use high performant software developing techniques... in short: Instead of using really a high power programming system (like C or a well coded C++, which in each case generate machine code), what - of course - make development much more demanding, they prefer as well the "quick-rush" way to stay "flexible" (and - of course - unsteady).

Well... to those, who are willing to follow this path - good luck!

[Jac459]

search.php?keywords=Bitwig+hardware+acc ... mit=Search

Hardware acceleration was one of the big big feature requested for Bitwig and subject to endless debates (frankly I never felt the need).
Apparently people having multiple hi-res screen were struggling.

The number of users of bitwig is growing and as such addressing all the scenarios becomes more and more difficult.

This is the effect you can see in Ableton forums.

To make complicating things simple:
Bitwig Studio is an classic typical Windows type of software and should be advertised as such - that's the point.
It's like a PC game - which also is simply a consume product, but no real part of serious work. Bitwig has - contrary to it's own claims - a veeery tiny community and such "habits" will hardy be suitable to increase it's user base.
The only really interested user of Bitwig is a gamer interested in making a little music or some really rich guy, who can spend, say 10.000 $ out of the purse - if needed - to follow a 'weak idea', even it this happens a few times a month. Such a person can buy a custom built machine and can replace it at any time without the need to work for this money... but the number of persons of that type surely doesn't grow quickly (if at all).

And should I become one of these lucky guys some day in the future... I have a lot of other interesting goals and consumer 'magnets' like Bitwig's Studio won't be part of them and catch my attention once more.

As for this argument of "hardware acceleration":
Surely every real Linux user know the classical weakness of Linux - drivers. And it costs as little as a few minutes to find this out using something like Google. If Bitwig really intends to prefer a user to buy newer, better hardware to make it's software run, this company knows very well, that they will have to cancel their Linux support quite soon, because such an amount of stable drivers simply has never been available.
Btw... they use a very low performant programming language, which shows me, that they simply sacrifice the users resources at their missing will to use high performant software developing techniques... in short: Instead of using really a high power programming system (like C or a well coded C++, which in each case generate machine code), what - of course - make development much more demanding, they prefer as well the "quick-rush" way to stay "flexible" (and - of course - unsteady).

Well... to those, who are willing to follow this path - good luck!

As an IT professional, many things are wrong in your reasoning in my view.

First, while I myself love Linux and use it daily (over raspberry PIs), I think it is really a choice of passionate if you are in a low budget and use it for general purpose.
By that I mean that I do respect your choice but you HAVE to understand that you will have lesser support and more issues in particular if you have older hardware and distribs.
This is just the way it is.
If you are in a budget and want to have a general purpose computer, Linux is not the right choice (even if it is the right choice for many many topics).

Second, for languages, while it is true that java is generally less performant than C/C++, it is also much more maintainable, stable, and it is also much easier to find good java developers.
Plus, actually java being such a largely used language, it is also becoming more performant than C for some type of algorithm and some JVM are in fact fully compiling the code in a very effective manner. I am not even talking about the UI frameworks that are more maintained and modern in java.
So basically, the difference of performance if any is not big as you think and on the contrary the maintainability is much much better.

That's why most big tech companies use java predominantly together with Rust and Go for performance requirements.

The impact for users, is : faster development of new feature, less crash.

A no brainer for me.

[SmajjL]

Surely every real Linux user know the classical weakness of Linux - drivers. And it costs as little as a few minutes to find this out using something like Google. If Bitwig really intends to prefer a user to buy

I have Live 12 and Push3 and/but i am on Linux with Bitwig and using drivenbymoss scripts, no Way i am angry at Bitwig just because someone like "drivenbymoss" have solved something for many devices.
I think Moss even is thankful himself that Ableton is Open enough so he can do his magic in the first place, some devices (Brands) are Way more closed and i don't think Bitwig is into the hacking business, feel free to charm some companies to open up for Linux if you want
Also, with so many DAWs available, surely there must be something for you out there that stinks the least.. so you can use the better smileys

[drsyncenstein]

on launch, Splashscreen closes, error message:
Unbenannt.PNG
my system is a quite old audio optimized windows 10 pc with 2 x NVidia NVS300 gfx cards.

any chance to use Bitwig 5.2 and above without the fancy, new, hardware accelerated, popping UI featurette, like, say, Bitwig 5.1.8?

Educated guess:
Bitwig 5.2 is probably using the Vulkan graphics library.
Check if your gpu supports vulkan, then find newer drivers.
Try this list: https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/
I had the same d3d error on startup and Bitwig crashed. I use the HD 4000 gpu built into older Intel processors. Those support directx 11 like in the release notes, but have no driver support for Vulkan (on windows). Swapped the gpu for an old GT1030 (which supports Vulkan) and Bitwig 5.2 works.
Filed a bug report, but doubt that they will fix this if vulkan support is really the issue.