[FREE] ConvertWithMoss - convert from/to WAV,Bitwig,SFZ,SF2,DecentSampler,MPC/Force,Wave-/Modwave/KMP,NKI,EXS) v9.5.0
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 12 May, 2024
First and foremost: Thanks so much for your amazing tool! I just discovered it a couple of days ago.
I have encountered a problem when converting Decent Samples or Kontakt libraries to the 1010music format: In some libraries the audio samples start with silence (e.g., https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/) and this shows up in the Decent Samples XML-file information, e.g.,
```
<sample path="Samples/Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" volume="4.9999995231628dB" tuning="0.00" rootNote="94" start="35806" end="344405" loNote="88" hiNote="94" loVel="1" hiVel="60" />
````
but in the 1010music presets.xml the start point information does not show up.
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and as a consequence, there is a noticeable delay between key press and the sample actually sounding, making the preset unplayable.
Is there a way to use this start-point information in the 1010music format? Or is it not supported for multisamples? If the latter is the case, then what's the best way to deal with this? Could your tool drop the silence in the beginning? Or should I, as the user, use some batch tool to cut the silence?
I have encountered a problem when converting Decent Samples or Kontakt libraries to the 1010music format: In some libraries the audio samples start with silence (e.g., https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/) and this shows up in the Decent Samples XML-file information, e.g.,
```
<sample path="Samples/Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" volume="4.9999995231628dB" tuning="0.00" rootNote="94" start="35806" end="344405" loNote="88" hiNote="94" loVel="1" hiVel="60" />
````
but in the 1010music presets.xml the start point information does not show up.
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and as a consequence, there is a noticeable delay between key press and the sample actually sounding, making the preset unplayable.
Is there a way to use this start-point information in the 1010music format? Or is it not supported for multisamples? If the latter is the case, then what's the best way to deal with this? Could your tool drop the silence in the beginning? Or should I, as the user, use some batch tool to cut the silence?
Last edited by jonlemon on Sun May 12, 2024 10:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 12 May, 2024
Another issue with conversion to 1010music I came across was with libraries that use round robin samples. E.g., again in https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/, there are two samples for each note range and velocity range, used for round robin in the decent sampler. E.g. there's a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" file that get two entries in 1010music's presets.xml
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" row="71" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
Since they share the same key range and velocity range information, they would be always triggered together, which is not what one would usually want.
1. One solution could be to filter out repeating entries identified based on key range and velocity range. That is, in the above example only "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" would be used and exported. "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" would not be exported.
2. Another, more ambitious solution would be to use all round-robin samples in the 1010music format to create some variation by partitioning the velocity range. E.g., in the above example the velocity range (1 to 60) could be split into, say, 1 to 30 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and 31 to 60 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav". This way, depending on the exact velocity played, one of the two samples will be played, giving slight, additional variation in sound. To really make this more effective, it would be cool to repeatedly subsplit the velocity range, e.g., 1 to 10, 11 to 20 ... 51 to 60 (or even in steps of 5) and assign the samples alternatingly. This way, even very small variations in velocity would trigger different samples.
Both solutions would work also with more than two round-robin samples.
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" row="71" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
Since they share the same key range and velocity range information, they would be always triggered together, which is not what one would usually want.
1. One solution could be to filter out repeating entries identified based on key range and velocity range. That is, in the above example only "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" would be used and exported. "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" would not be exported.
2. Another, more ambitious solution would be to use all round-robin samples in the 1010music format to create some variation by partitioning the velocity range. E.g., in the above example the velocity range (1 to 60) could be split into, say, 1 to 30 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and 31 to 60 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav". This way, depending on the exact velocity played, one of the two samples will be played, giving slight, additional variation in sound. To really make this more effective, it would be cool to repeatedly subsplit the velocity range, e.g., 1 to 10, 11 to 20 ... 51 to 60 (or even in steps of 5) and assign the samples alternatingly. This way, even very small variations in velocity would trigger different samples.
Both solutions would work also with more than two round-robin samples.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
Thanks for reporting! Seems that the start and end were missing (and reverse as well). Will be fixed in the next update!jonlemon wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 9:42 pm First and foremost: Thanks so much for your amazing tool! I just discovered it a couple of days ago.
I have encountered a problem when converting Decent Samples or Kontakt libraries to the 1010music format: In some libraries the audio samples start with silence (e.g., https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/) and this shows up in the Decent Samples XML-file information, e.g.,
...
and as a consequence, there is a noticeable delay between key press and the sample actually sounding, making the preset unplayable.
Is there a way to use this start-point information in the 1010music format? Or is it not supported for multisamples? If the latter is the case, then what's the best way to deal with this? Could your tool drop the silence in the beginning? Or should I, as the user, use some batch tool to cut the silence?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
Option 3: I will talk to the 1010music guys this week at SuperBooth about such things But I am a bit afraid that they think more in the direction of Groove Box than a proper Sampler (for live playing).jonlemon wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 9:55 pm Another issue with conversion to 1010music I came across was with libraries that use round robin samples. E.g., again in https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/, there are two samples for each note range and velocity range, used for round robin in the decent sampler. E.g. there's a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" file that get two entries in 1010music's presets.xml
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" row="71" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
Since they share the same key range and velocity range information, they would be always triggered together, which is not what one would usually want.
1. One solution could be to filter out repeating entries identified based on key range and velocity range. That is, in the above example only "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" would be used and exported. "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" would not be exported.
2. Another, more ambitious solution would be to use all round-robin samples in the 1010music format to create some variation by partitioning the velocity range. E.g., in the above example the velocity range (1 to 60) could be split into, say, 1 to 30 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and 31 to 60 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav". This way, depending on the exact velocity played, one of the two samples will be played, giving slight, additional variation in sound. To really make this more effective, it would be cool to repeatedly subsplit the velocity range, e.g., 1 to 10, 11 to 20 ... 51 to 60 (or even in steps of 5) and assign the samples alternatingly. This way, even very small variations in velocity would trigger different samples.
Both solutions would work also with more than two round-robin samples.
-
- KVRer
- 7 posts since 12 May, 2024
Thanks so much!moss wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:58 amThanks for reporting! Seems that the start and end were missing (and reverse as well). Will be fixed in the next update!jonlemon wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 9:42 pm First and foremost: Thanks so much for your amazing tool! I just discovered it a couple of days ago.
I have encountered a problem when converting Decent Samples or Kontakt libraries to the 1010music format: In some libraries the audio samples start with silence (e.g., https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/) and this shows up in the Decent Samples XML-file information, e.g.,
...
and as a consequence, there is a noticeable delay between key press and the sample actually sounding, making the preset unplayable.
Is there a way to use this start-point information in the 1010music format? Or is it not supported for multisamples? If the latter is the case, then what's the best way to deal with this? Could your tool drop the silence in the beginning? Or should I, as the user, use some batch tool to cut the silence?
-
- KVRer
- 7 posts since 12 May, 2024
Option 3 is even better!moss wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 9:15 amOption 3: I will talk to the 1010music guys this week at SuperBooth about such things But I am a bit afraid that they think more in the direction of Groove Box than a proper Sampler (for live playing).jonlemon wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 9:55 pm Another issue with conversion to 1010music I came across was with libraries that use round robin samples. E.g., again in https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/, there are two samples for each note range and velocity range, used for round robin in the decent sampler. E.g. there's a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" file that get two entries in 1010music's presets.xml
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" row="71" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
Since they share the same key range and velocity range information, they would be always triggered together, which is not what one would usually want.
1. One solution could be to filter out repeating entries identified based on key range and velocity range. That is, in the above example only "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" would be used and exported. "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" would not be exported.
2. Another, more ambitious solution would be to use all round-robin samples in the 1010music format to create some variation by partitioning the velocity range. E.g., in the above example the velocity range (1 to 60) could be split into, say, 1 to 30 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and 31 to 60 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav". This way, depending on the exact velocity played, one of the two samples will be played, giving slight, additional variation in sound. To really make this more effective, it would be cool to repeatedly subsplit the velocity range, e.g., 1 to 10, 11 to 20 ... 51 to 60 (or even in steps of 5) and assign the samples alternatingly. This way, even very small variations in velocity would trigger different samples.
Both solutions would work also with more than two round-robin samples.
Yes, I can see that and why 1010music do not think of the Blackbox and the Tangerine as ultraportable multisample players, but somewhat ironically those two products may in fact be the only such devices with that much flexibility. Or would you know other portable products that would support velocity layers and loop points?
I just recently came across a reddit post, which revolved around the same topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/s/DDSgQRSRLw (and here my thoughts on what it means vis-à-vis the Blackbox: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/s/zKJGRZU3qO).
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
I talked to them and they are totally open to new ideas! Best is if you send your ideas as well to them to show the interest.jonlemon wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:58 pmOption 3 is even better!moss wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 9:15 amOption 3: I will talk to the 1010music guys this week at SuperBooth about such things But I am a bit afraid that they think more in the direction of Groove Box than a proper Sampler (for live playing).jonlemon wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 9:55 pm Another issue with conversion to 1010music I came across was with libraries that use round robin samples. E.g., again in https://www.pianobook.co.uk/packs/steinway-grand/, there are two samples for each note range and velocity range, used for round robin in the decent sampler. E.g. there's a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and a "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" file that get two entries in 1010music's presets.xml
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" row="0" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
and
```
<cell filename=".\Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" row="71" type="asset">
<params asssrccol="0" asssrcrow="0" keyrangebottom="88" keyrangetop="94" rootnote="94" velrangebottom="1" velrangetop="60"/>
</cell>
```
Since they share the same key range and velocity range information, they would be always triggered together, which is not what one would usually want.
1. One solution could be to filter out repeating entries identified based on key range and velocity range. That is, in the above example only "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" would be used and exported. "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav" would not be exported.
2. Another, more ambitious solution would be to use all round-robin samples in the 1010music format to create some variation by partitioning the velocity range. E.g., in the above example the velocity range (1 to 60) could be split into, say, 1 to 30 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR1.wav" and 31 to 60 assigned to "Steinway_A#5_Dyn1_RR2.wav". This way, depending on the exact velocity played, one of the two samples will be played, giving slight, additional variation in sound. To really make this more effective, it would be cool to repeatedly subsplit the velocity range, e.g., 1 to 10, 11 to 20 ... 51 to 60 (or even in steps of 5) and assign the samples alternatingly. This way, even very small variations in velocity would trigger different samples.
Both solutions would work also with more than two round-robin samples.
Yes, I can see that and why 1010music do not think of the Blackbox and the Tangerine as ultraportable multisample players, but somewhat ironically those two products may in fact be the only such devices with that much flexibility. Or would you know other portable products that would support velocity layers and loop points?
I just recently came across a reddit post, which revolved around the same topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/s/DDSgQRSRLw (and here my thoughts on what it means vis-à-vis the Blackbox: https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/s/zKJGRZU3qO).
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
ConvertWithMoss 9.5 is out!
Get it from https://mossgrabers.de
Enjoy!
Get it from https://mossgrabers.de
- Added support to write Soundfont 2.
- All formats
- Fixed: In rare cases key-ranges could be stored incorrectly if not fully present in the source file
- 1010music format - Writing
- New: Set samtrigtype to zero if one-shot.
- Fixed: Writing sample start, length and reverse were missing.
- DecentSampler - Read
- Fixed: The sub-folder which contains the library/preset was added to the name which could cause issues in the destination format.
- Sf2 - Reading
- Fixed: Pitch envelope was only set when a filter was present as well.
- TX16Wx - Read
- Fixed: samples could sometimes not be found on Macos/Linux
- WAV - Read
- New: Metadata is now read from info sub-chunks and stored in the Comment metadata field.
- WAV - Write
- Fixed: Update of Broadcast Audio chunk did fail if no date/time metadata was set.
- Fixed: Destination file name could be empty if 'prefer folder name' was selected.
Enjoy!
- KVRist
- 59 posts since 1 Mar, 2007
Any chance this tool comes to iPad OS? Wouldbe great and the best converter ever!
[*] sound is unfrozen geometry [*]
https://www.youtube.com/c/Eurikon/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/Eurikon/videos
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
- KVRAF
- 4623 posts since 15 Jul, 2001 from Holmfirth, West Yorkshire, U.K
- KVRAF
- 4936 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
Thank you for such a useful program!!! It just keeps getting better and better!!!
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
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- KVRist
- 328 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Tragorden
Great project! I get either silence or white noise when converting to Logic Sampler (EXS). Seems Jürgen is testing EXS in a third party sampler, so I'm just wondering if anyone has it working in Logic?
Sonoma 14.5 / Logic Pro 11
Sonoma 14.5 / Logic Pro 11
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4206 posts since 13 May, 2004
Does it work with none of the output files or can you track it down to certain sample rates, parameters, etc.?metalsvinet wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 12:53 pm Great project! I get either silence or white noise when converting to Logic Sampler (EXS). Seems Jürgen is testing EXS in a third party sampler, so I'm just wondering if anyone has it working in Logic?
Sonoma 14.5 / Logic Pro 11
Also, did you try different source formats?