Orchestral Libraries...

[Forever Sun]

GPO

+ Wet and dry samples

QLSO Silver

+ Natural reverb (both a plus and a minus) for greater realism

A bit confused, here as from my research I understand that GPO hasn't got any WET samples ( that's why the free reverb plug-in).

Silver contains only the CLOSE mic recordings which wouldn't give much reverb either. It's Gold which has STAGE mic recordings with its natural reverb
(likewise the Platinum version with extra FAR mic positions).

[x_bruce]

GPO has wet samples, still you need different ambiences dry or wet; in fact, if wet and dry samples are used you immediately change the reality of the sound spectrum as some instruments are in one kind of room while the other is in another.

There are various changes as you move across the stage but that's the point of having plugins to emulate halls and performance conditions.

RE: EWQLSO Silver, the update is about $300 and makes it much more capable as a complete orchestral system. So that EWQLSO Silver purchase may cost $550 by the time you get the latest samples.

EWQLSO Silver has a magnificent sound. I don't agree about the film scoring stuff. It is a very capable set that used properly does whatever is required. The problem which the upgrade fixes is the lack of many solo instruments which change the whole feel of the orchestra. EWQLSO Gold is quite capable of anything. With the Silver and upgrade you'd have a fully functioal orchestra with a great sounding hall. then the issue becomes dry or the natural reverb of a great hall recorded by a incredible team of engineers.

That said I really enjoy GPO. It has a lot of interesting articulations and sounds very good for all but the most discerning user. It's also ready to go out of the box, which is quite nice.

Lastly, if you want a gonzo, low-tech orchestra for film look to bigfishaudio. Prosonus - The Orchestral Collection has many useful sounds that are different sounding, particular the effects. If I was scoring a cartoon it would be my choice library. To me it has the same charm a mellotron has but it's much closer to it's competitors than the M-tron. Bluntly, I can get some fantastic orchestral arrangements from the M-Tron with all added libraries, but that's about $150 or less and the M-Tron is capable of being used in almost any kind of music, though I wouldn't seriously consider it as a classical sample setup.

Do figure out what you plan to use the orchestral library on. When I first used Prosonus - The Orchestral Collection I didn't think it was worth mention until I used it in some electronic pieces and it stood out like the voice of hell (in a good way) which took an entirely different approach in GPO and EWQLSO Silver, both of which I have.

Then again, I spend more time these days comparing synths and evaluating which has become a valuable lesson in tolerance. Once you get a feel for whatever it is you are using it's funny how things you don't think much of shine in a mix. I understood how the Matrix scores used, in part, the Prosonus library.

As an all arounder at a price friendly point, the current sample set is GPO in my opinion.

[zircon]

GPO uses extensive filtering, however, it's integrated into the instrument sound. Also, the latest version allows for LFO mod to be set and controlled for certain instruments for vibrato, and their "X-Control" sound sets allow the user to set a separate dedicated controller for global control over instruments.

But if you're looking for the ability to take a classical sampled instrument and turn it into a synth texture, you'd need to load GPO into the full version of Kontakt and edit from there.

Right, so you agree with me on this point.

This is another common misperception, and touches on the points above. GPO demands that the user actually impart musical control on the instruments, instead of relying on envelopes, layering, etc. to get the job done for you. If you play these instruments with a General MIDI file, it will sound like a glorified music box. However, with proper musical control, you can get results that far outstrip other libraries. The award winning television, video games, film projects and live productions that GPO has been used on are ample evidence of that.

Erm, I do compose professionally and have used a wide variety of libraries. I have a good handle on MIDI orchestration and how you cannot sequence two libraries the same way. I know how to use automation, velocity, quantization, layering, and crossfading to create a more realistic sound. I also know what GPO's strong points are - I do own it, you know! But again, aside from the solo instruments, it simply is not as convincing as libraries like QLSO Gold, even WITH proper control. I mean, just look at the size of the whole library - 2GB, compared to 16GB with QLSO Gold and hundreds of GB with VSL.

Again, you've got to use GPO as it's intended. With integrated legato mode, masterful programming of Kontakt's flex envelopes, and proper user control - a wide, wide variety of articulations can be created by the user on the fly without resorting to instrument bloat or scads of MIDI tracks for each sampled articulation. The latest version includes a keyswitched string section instrument that has 12 keys, allowing the user to cover most of the ground with a single instance. That's before you get into the ensemble builder concept and produce realtime trills and such, adding another opportunity to get away from static samples and impart a new level of individual expression to your music.

Right, but you still cannot create all the articulations provided by other libraries, and it's generally more of a bother to create the ones that you CAN replicate. For instance, contrabassoon slaps and french horn rips. You can't do that with GPO. In addition, it's a safe assumption to make that many people looking for orchestral libraries are not interested in getting their hands too dirty programming, which is something you need to do with GPO to get a really great sound out of it.

Garritan has mentioned in the Northernsounds forum that they will be adding a choir add-on to GPO, but no official announcement has been made yet.

But in the current version, there is no choir.

I hope you didn't interpret my post as an attack on GPO or something of that nature. I love GPO. I use it all the time. I recommend it to people looking for a solid orchestral library, even if they already have something like VSL Opus, because GPO really is unique. However, the negative points I outlined still stand. No library can do everything.

A bit confused, here as from my research I understand that GPO hasn't got any WET samples ( that's why the free reverb plug-in).

As x_bruce mentioned, it comes with wet versions of all the patches. The wet versions, I believe, use built in Kontakt reverb, which unfortunately isn't all that great. Dry is a much better idea.

Silver contains only the CLOSE mic recordings which wouldn't give much reverb either. It's Gold which has STAGE mic recordings with its natural reverb (likewise the Platinum version with extra FAR mic positions).

No, Silver still has pretty noticable reverb. Play an 18 violin ensemble patch next to a dry synth patch and you'll quickly see how much natural verb Silver has. GPO's dry samples are completely dry, in comparison.

[neverwhere2012]

wow... thanks everyone who replied, gave me a lot of info. big thanks to you x_bruce, you really hit the nail on the head as far as what i wanted to hear -- more personal reviews of the products in question than anything else. i completely forgot about that prosonus library -- had seen ads for it in magazines and always wondered about it. but yea, basically i plan on using whatever i get for a variety of music -- straight ahead electronica, industrial, hip-hop, film score style stuff...

i'm a music major in college and know enough of theory to know where i'm going with a piece. just basically wanted to hear opinions on what the most versatile of the libraries are -- i can listen to demos all day but it doesn't really give me a clear indication of the variety of instruments presented, and what sorts of situations they can be used best in. i'd rather hear from people who have first hand experience. anyway, this thread is proving rather useful. i'd definitely love to read more about the kind of mileage people have been able to squeeze out of these libraries in term sof multi-genre usefulness. thanks again everyone.

[Markleford]

No, GPO does *not* have wet samples.

There *is* an instrument program set that enables a "Reverb" control knob which controls Kontakt's built-in reverb. But it's not part of the sample.

- m

[DevonB]

wow... thanks everyone who replied, gave me a lot of info. big thanks to you x_bruce, you really hit the nail on the head as far as what i wanted to hear -- more personal reviews of the products in question than anything else. i completely forgot about that prosonus library -- had seen ads for it in magazines and always wondered about it. but yea, basically i plan on using whatever i get for a variety of music -- straight ahead electronica, industrial, hip-hop, film score style stuff...

Remember how old the Prosonus library is. I remember seeing that around before I actually started buying hardware in 1995. I'd get that if I wanted to round out my collection, not start my collection with.

Devon

[koorby]

Since you original mentioned that you're considering SampleTank 2XL or an expansion pack, here are two pieces I've done; one uses SampleTank2XL exclusively, the other uses EWQLSO Silver exclusively. You can see that ST2XL is able to create quite reasonable orchestral pieces. You'll also see that EWQLSO Silver is a very warm lush, full sounding orchestral library.

SampleTank 2XL

EWQLSO Silver

I guess it comes down to budget and what sort of sound you want to get. We are spoilt by choice these days though.

[zircon]

No, GPO does *not* have wet samples.

There *is* an instrument program set that enables a "Reverb" control knob which controls Kontakt's built-in reverb. But it's not part of the sample.

- m

Well, right, that's technically the case. But the GPO manual and GPO program itself refers to those programs as "wet" samples.

[Markleford]

Well, right, that's technically the case. But the GPO manual and GPO program itself refers to those programs as "wet" samples.

Very unfortunate wording, then!

- m

[Cyprus]

No, GPO does *not* have wet samples.

There *is* an instrument program set that enables a "Reverb" control knob which controls Kontakt's built-in reverb. But it's not part of the sample.

- m

Have you ever used GPO??? It has wet samples, maybe you need to follow the instructions when installing it.

I will take a screenshot if I really have to.

[DevonB]

No, GPO does *not* have wet samples.

There *is* an instrument program set that enables a "Reverb" control knob which controls Kontakt's built-in reverb. But it's not part of the sample.

- m

Have you ever used GPO??? It has wet samples, maybe you need to follow the instructions when installing it.

I will take a screenshot if I really have to.

And if you actually LOOK at the patch, you'll notice that the built-in reverb is turned on. That doesn't make the actual sample 'wet', it just means they turned on the reverb unit. All the included samples are dry.

Devon

[Markleford]

Have you ever used GPO??? It has wet samples, maybe you need to follow the instructions when installing it.

Yes, I use GPO. Yes, there is a folder of instrument files called "Wet Audition". However, these simply tell the Kontakt player to use the internal reverb effect.

I will take a screenshot if I really have to.

If you believe that it will truly show there are wet samples, then have at it. But keep in mind that all the sample data is stored in the .nks files, not .nki files. The same sample data is used for both sets of wet and dry instruments. A screenshot of the directory structure or the menu on the GUI won't prove otherwise.

- m

[o'malley]

You should get a real orchestra... no, just kidding, but can you imagine...


someday, someday...

[DevonB]

You should get a real orchestra... no, just kidding, but can you imagine...


someday, someday...

Sure, you could. But can you imaigne writing everything down on sheet music for each player and banging out the whole arangement on a piano because you don't have the sounds, and then you have to wait until session to see how it all gels together? Composers have done that for years. Now we're spoiled. I like being spoiled, personally.

Devon

[dahwoud]

Have you checked http://www.projectsam.com/libraries.html ?

Don't know if it's phrase sampled ...