Kirk Hunter Studios

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Fri May 17, 2013 3:13 pm

KirkHunter wrote:Interesting. So...the Albion patch you're comparing to has roughly the same size where sample content is concerned?

Yeah, the CS2 patch is 4.4GB total with 127MB in RAM, and the Albion patch is 4GB total with 163MB loaded into RAM. Not exactly the same, but close enough that there shouldn't be a major discrepancy of more than a few seconds.

I will give those two patches a whirl this afternoon and let you know what I experience. Thanks again!

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Fri May 17, 2013 3:23 pm

I meant the ACTUAL sample size of the content. The violins of CS2 are 6.47 GB.

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Fri May 17, 2013 3:29 pm

KirkHunter wrote:I meant the ACTUAL sample size of the content. The violins of CS2 are 6.47 GB.

Oh, I was just going to by what Kontakt showed in the lower-left when I clicked on the patch in the browser. Is that not an accurate readout? If not, what do I need to check to get an accurate number on the Albion patch?

(If it makes a difference, I originally purchased the uncompressed version of CS2, but ultimately re-saved it all to Kontakt's compressed format. However, this had no effect on my loading times--they have always been similar to what you see in the video.)

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Fri May 17, 2013 3:31 pm

For albion's sample size, you'd need to go to their sample folder with your windows explorer and check there....that is, if they arranged it like that. Kontakt's readout does not access the actual sample size per se.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri May 17, 2013 5:39 pm

What Kontakt shows as memory load is just the sample sizes (DFD preload buffers per zone, and whole sample size in case of using sampler or any of TM modes).

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:18 pm

KirkHunter wrote:For albion's sample size, you'd need to go to their sample folder with your windows explorer and check there....that is, if they arranged it like that. Kontakt's readout does not access the actual sample size per se.

Hmm, looks like the Albion samples are all encrypted NKX/NKC files, and there is no indication which files go where, so I think Kontakt's figure of 3.97GB is the best estimate we're going to get on that. Going to try the new patches you posted right now--will update in just a minute...

edit: okay, that was really fast and easy. They loaded instantly.

One random thought that may or may not be worth pursuing. Obviously when I load these, I get the "missing files" dialog, which is to be expected. But aside from the actual sample content, I notice there are also a bunch of impulse responses and of course the background image. Is there any possibility that it could be one of those files causing a hang? (I don't know why they would, but I'm just spit-balling here.)

Or could it be that it's just such a large amount of raw sample data? Most of the libraries I have ever seen of comparable size to CS2/CB2 distribute them as encrypted Kontakt Libraries, with the samples in NKX/NKC archives, like Albion. Any chance that could be it, like maybe Kontakt just has trouble prepping that many raw samples? I realize there's a whole extra layer of licensing issues when using this format, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you should change or anything--just trying to think what might be causing this.

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:35 pm

Try this:

load them again.
Then after you get the missing samples dialog, browse until you get all of 'em to load.
Then resave the instrument.
Close Kontakt
Re-launch Kontakt
now, open the instrument you you saved.

I want to see what happens when Kontakt "knows" where to find the samples from the get-go, but without the heavy programming.

Also, let me know which of the 2 files I sent you that you're testing

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:20 pm

Oops, I just realized that the patches you sent are looking for WAV files, but my CS2 samples are all compressed NCW files, so it is never going to match them up. Are you able to send me a test patch for the compressed version? (Or if it's fairly simple to recreate the script-stripping on my end, you can let me know what I would need to remove to accomplish it.)

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:46 pm

When the sample missing dialog box comes up, just ask it to allow alternate file types, and it will load. However, the FIRST time it does this, it will be REALLY REALLY slow. Then, resave as described before, and then start over.

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Mon May 20, 2013 1:58 pm

Awesome, I had never noticed that option--good to know.

So I tried with both patches, and yeah, once they had actual samples to load, they both had the same loading delay as shown in the video. Not really sure what to make of it...

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:58 pm

When you compressed the samples from the original .wav format, Kontakt put all of the samples in one folder. Could it be that your Windows setup does not like so many samples all in one folder? Did you delete your original .wav version of the library?

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:29 pm

No, Kontakt maintained the same folder structure for all of CS2 when I converted them, so they're all still separated into their originally-named folders.

The WAV files are indeed deleted. I have my original downloads archived somewhere, but I had this issue with the original WAV versions as well--it's actually why I originally re-saved them in compressed format, because I was hoping it might resolve my issue.

So this freezing thing doesn't happen at all on your end? I am mystified why I am the only one (or one of the only ones) who is seeing this. Aside from this strange issue, my system performs quite well all of the time. I believe I remember reading somewhere that you work exclusively on Mac--if that's the case, could this be an issue with either Win 7/64, or something specific to the Win 7/64 VST version of Kontakt? My Native Instruments themselves might be able to provide some insight?

It's starting to look like this might be a kind of "just deal with it" issue for me. Although I do seriously appreciate your continued attempts to assist me on this!

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:33 pm

At least we have eliminated the programming as a possible problem. It seems to be a sample loading issue, which would then be something on Kontakt's end. It also could be that it's a problem exclusive to libraries that are non-player versions that use sample types other than .nkc. What are your Kontakt preferences? ie: "options"?

sockofgold · Post by **sockofgold** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:41 pm

KirkHunter wrote:What are your Kontakt preferences? ie: "options"?

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow you there. Any specific options you are looking for? (This will be something I will have to confirm later on today when I'm back at my studio PC.)

KirkHunter · Post by **KirkHunter** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:59 pm

I'm just trying to compare "apples to apples" as it were. Your only other Kontakt library comparison is Albion, right? And that library uses the nkx sample type this is proprietary for Kontakt's player. Do you have any other Kontakt libraries that use either .wav or .ncw sample types? My reasoning is that it could be possible that since sample loading has been identified as the culprit, I'm trying to see if it's the sample TYPE.

Kirk Hunter Studios

KVR Audio

Any help on speeding up load times?