Commercial Tracktion users ...

[christianmusicmaker]

i've also mastered some cd's in tracktion. it's nice for that, but I've not recorded a complete band with it till now because of missing features (cuemix, less frickling graphics with 40-60 tracks i.o.w. grouping of tracks or similar).

More people mastering in Tracktion only. Maybe T2 will include the fetures you mentioned.

I used tracktion to mix and edit all my tracks on my upcoming split album on M-Tronic records. Most of them were originally made in Buzz, but i'm moving over to tracktion for composing too.

So there are more commercial users out there..knew it! Good to see..well done!

[koorby]

I've moved from Sonar 3 PE to Tracktion - for everything. Never going back to the "pro" sequencers ever again. I mean, why design a DAW to mimick an analog studio of 20 years ago?

Also, features such as video, CD mastering etc etc *don't* need to be added to Tracktion. Please don't Jules ... the last thing I want is for that super tight code to become bloatware. Tracktion is superfast and efficient because it is SMALL. Adding a whole bunch of "me too" features is not going to make it any better.

But definitely ditto on the better quantize though

[chagzuki]

I really hope to be a 'commercial' user soon.
I'm mastering stuff in Tracktion and finding that being able to apply FX to audio clips is REALLY useful for this purpose. If a track needs different EQ on different sections I just split it up and crossfade from one part to another. All my tracks are sitting together in a mastering edit, so I can master each track in the context of the album.

[chriss]

"Also, features such as video, CD mastering etc etc *don't* need to be added to Tracktion. Please don't Jules ... the last thing I want is for that super tight code to become bloatware. Tracktion is superfast and efficient because it is SMALL. Adding a whole bunch of "me too" features is not going to make it any better."

I can’t disagree more, video is not a "me too" feature it is essential for anyone wanting to compose for film, video games, and TV. CD mastering is icing on the cake. I would like to work 100% of the time in Tracktion but I find my self about 50/50 with logic or other apps. These features would help me leave those other software packages behind.

[chagzuki]

A VST video player might be a solution.

[sixnon]

Yeh ditto with the video support as the bulk of my paid work consists of scoring for animation.

The issue of a vst video player is, indeed, an option, in fact for OSX an app already exists which allows for Video via rewire. Alas both Revision and Tracktion are rewire hosts only and so cannot be rewired together. Alas again, both developers have no immediate plans for rectification of this issue..

Six

[optilude]

We've had discussions on this before, so, please, let's not start a big "I need it therefore it must be there" vs. "I don't need it so therefore it must be avoided like the plague" debate, but...

If all you need is to sync Tracktion a video clip, a VST or Rewire slave video player seems like a much cleaner solution than building all of this into Tracktion. I may of course be missing some vital part of the scoring process that means that this is not possible, but if the output is intended to be a .wav file with sound to be combined with a video at a later time (i.e. by the video editor, using software that was designed for editing video - Tracktion obviously isn't), then the separation can only be a good thing. I'm actually quite surprised there aren't already such tools available (even as part of some video editing suite).

Martin

[LRS]

I'm starting to use Tracktion more now as my primary application. I have recently done a live recording of various acts using Tracktion. The results were remarkably good bearing in mind that this is only a part time thing for me although I am making money from it. Therefore I guess it can be classified as a commercial venture.

Tracktion is particularly good for live work as I was able to arm tracks to record and save everything as an archived edit. The setup between acts was minimal and to separate songs within an act was a simple matter of stopping the recording then restarting immediately for the new song. I recorded up to 12 tracks simultaneously for approx 5 hours with no problems. The post recording work is huge and ongoing but a great day's work.

You can hear the results on my web site's samples page - the top three songs are from that day.

Cheers
Graham
www.lakesiderecordingstudio.co.nz

[sixnon]

We've had discussions on this before, so, please, let's not start a big "I need it therefore it must be there" vs. "I don't need it so therefore it must be avoided like the plague" debate, but...

Actually there has been remarkably few discussion apropos video support in Tracktion, so please, if you don't enjoy such discussions, don't contribute to them.

I can certainly see your point with regards to not wanting Tracktion to get ungainly, but I fail to see how (given the stability issues which plague vst/i's and the lengthy period of time it took for developers to implement Rewire correctly) you can say this option would be "cleaner".

That being said, and as i stated above, I would be stoked if either Jules or Grant would make the possibililty of Tracktion or Revision to run as a rewire slave a reality. Alas, both parties have explicitly stated that this is not on their respective agendas..

...did I sound rude? Sorry, not the intent, just matching the tone

Six

[chriss]

The problem with rewire or vst video solutions is that you can not easily line up on the time line to the frame you want. In other words you cant have a overview of the total project, also (at least with vst) you can not output video to a external device. I want my picture on my video playback monitor not a little window on my screen.

[valley]

you can not easily line up on the time line to the frame you want

also (at least with vst) you can not output video to a external device.

Can't speak for ReWire, but at least with VST, I'm not sure either of these things is correct. A VST based video player can sync the video frame dead accruately to the current playhead position (down to audio sample frequency accuracy). The VST spec requires the host to at least attempt to honour a request for the time offset from a current bar expressed as a floating point representative of each quarter note, in addition to similar support for SMTPE position. With that information, the current BPM, and sample rate, it should be possible to ensure that the video frame is always locked to the current playhead.

As for the output window, it'd be ugly to configure in a VST plug, but plugins are pefectly entitled to launch external windows, and the physical location of that window is not bound to be inside the sequencer space. I believe this holds true even in MDI based interfaces, though I've never programmed MDI apps (I dislike them intensely) so I've never put this to the test.

[optilude]

Actually there has been remarkably few discussion apropos video support in Tracktion, so please, if you don't enjoy such discussions, don't contribute to them.

IIRC, they tend to start inside other threads that veer off-topic, like this one.

I can certainly see your point with regards to not wanting Tracktion to get ungainly, but I fail to see how (given the stability issues which plague vst/i's and the lengthy period of time it took for developers to implement Rewire correctly) you can say this option would be "cleaner".

VST instability is down to the VST authors not writing them properly (why every VST has to re-invent the basic user interface controls such as buttons and lists is beyond me). I doubt there's something inherently unstable about the VST protocol or Tracktion's implementation of it.

By "cleaner", I'm talking about user interfaces. Tracktion wasn't designed to be a video editing application, so it seems a lot more sensible to me that if all you want is to display a video clip synced to the current timecode within Tracktion so that you could compose music that fits the flow of the picture, this should be done in a VST or via Rewire, both of which allow you to do this in a manner that separates the music creation (Tracktion) from the video display.

As for the output window, it'd be ugly to configure in a VST plug, but plugins are pefectly entitled to launch external windows, and the physical location of that window is not bound to be inside the sequencer space. I believe this holds true even in MDI based interfaces, though I've never programmed MDI apps (I dislike them intensely) so I've never put this to the test.

I thought he was talking about a TV monitor, presumably connected via some special TV-output hardware? In any case, a VST should be just as capable of outputting to that. I could see a VST with some configuration options (or drawing its configuration from a full video editing application) that read the timecode from Tracktion and allowed you to define what point in the video file you'd want to correspond to the start of the Tracktion timeline, and then output optionally to a video window (which could be locked in Tracktion and/or moved to a different desktop on a different PC monitor) or output to a video output device (i.e. a TV screen).

I must stress that I don't do video editing myself, and I don't know the VST spec in detail, so this is guessing, but if I were designing a system for scoring to video, I would separate concerns as much as possible - this way, you can use any video playing VST/Rewire Slave that suits your needs and compose in Tracktion (and conversely, use any sequencer you'd like, not just Tracktion); then you'd export the wav when you're happy and import it into a fully-featured video editor, where you could align it to your video clip and put it in as the soundtrack, making sound and picture as one.

(Sorry for veering off topic again. )

Martin

[chriss]

"A VST based video player can sync the video frame dead accruately to the current playhead position (down to audio sample frequency accuracy)."

Yes you are correct, but I with a vst version I wont see the frame until I am at the frame. I want a overview of the complete clip then I can jump quickly to where I want IE

[christianmusicmaker]

I've moved from Sonar 3 PE to Tracktion - for everything. Never going back to the "pro" sequencers ever again. I mean, why design a DAW to mimick an analog studio of 20 years ago?

Also, features such as video, CD mastering etc etc *don't* need to be added to Tracktion. Please don't Jules ... the last thing I want is for that super tight code to become bloatware. Tracktion is superfast and efficient because it is SMALL. Adding a whole bunch of "me too" features is not going to make it any better.

But definitely ditto on the better quantize though

Sonar user... I use Tracktion and Sonar 3. I think you are the first person I can remember that has stopped using Sonar 3 Producer and just uses Tracktion. Without a doubt Tracktion is a far easier choice to make music with but has great features as well.

Tractions design is certainly modern and refreshingly so.Basically it works!

I suppose I would prefer a dedicated audio/midi Tracktion than a bloated one. I was at the Logic forum a few days ago and bugs are one of the main complaints. I would have thought the Apple buyout would have made Logic rock solid by now. Tracktion is very reliable especially for £50. More than 10 times *less* than Logic!

I really hope to be a 'commercial' user soon.
I'm mastering stuff in Tracktion and finding that being able to apply FX to audio clips is REALLY useful for this purpose. If a track needs different EQ on different sections I just split it up and crossfade from one part to another. All my tracks are sitting together in a mastering edit, so I can master each track in the context of the album./

Great... hope you get going on the commercial road soon.Mastering your stuff in Tracktion as well.
I think the "fx to audio clips" function is brilliant.

I can’t disagree more, video is not a "me too" feature it is essential for anyone wanting to compose for film, video games, and TV. CD mastering is icing on the cake. I would like to work 100% of the time in Tracktion but I find my self about 50/50 with logic or other apps. These features would help me leave those other software packages behind.

Good point but I think alot of Tracktion users are cautious about this feature...maybe because it is unlikely that Tracktion 2 for instance would even have anything approaching the video features of Logic anyway.I would certainly not complain if a video function is included but can also see why people are not too keen on it.The heavily featured and just released Vegas 5 is probably a good alternative or even Avid (didgidesign Protools)but about 10 times Traction's cost but then there are two applications dedicated to entirely different things.

A VST video player might be a solution.

Absolutely.

I'm starting to use Tracktion more now as my primary application. I have recently done a live recording of various acts using Tracktion. The results were remarkably good bearing in mind that this is only a part time thing for me although I am making money from it. Therefore I guess it can be classified as a commercial venture.

Tracktion is particularly good for live work as I was able to arm tracks to record and save everything as an archived edit. The setup between acts was minimal and to separate songs within an act was a simple matter of stopping the recording then restarting immediately for the new song. I recorded up to 12 tracks simultaneously for approx 5 hours with no problems. The post recording work is huge and ongoing but a great day's work.

You can hear the results on my web site's samples page - the top three songs are from that day.

Cheers
Graham
www.lakesiderecordingstudio.co.nz

More commercial users... great making money from creativity isn't it?

Live work as well...I thought most people would use Ableton Live... that might save me bit of money as I was considering Ableton live for live work...thanks for the feedback.

[valley]

I thought he was talking about a TV monitor, presumably connected via some special TV-output hardware? In any case, a VST should be just as capable of outputting to that

As long as a VST plug can launch a window outside of the host's own application space, the physical location of that window becomes arbitrary. It could be on the current screen, or a secondary screen. The form and nature of the secondary screen is immaterial also.

Yes you are correct, but I with a vst version I wont see the frame until I am at the frame. I want a overview of the complete clip then I can jump quickly to where I want IE

OK, for a visualised time line, as opposed to simple frame synch, you'd need the video player to be native. Neither ReWire nor VST have a methodology by which to present the video in the form typical to tru video editors.

Of course, by the time you've added the code weight to handle that, you might just as well finish the job and allow the video to be handled as clips just like the current audio clip system. Hey presto, we have a video editor...