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****Mastering Challenge Vote Thread****

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Will you be voting on this?

Poll ended at Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:00 pm

Yes
20
48%
No
7
17%
No, but I am curious to see who wins.
15
36%
 
Total votes : 42
KVRist
 
409 posts since 23 Nov, 2007, from Beaverton, OR
 

Postby Geoff242; Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:00 pm ****Mastering Challenge Vote Thread****

Mastering Challenge Vote Thread

Welcome! The sole purpose of this thread is for you to cast your vote for the best mastered version of "Captivate Me" by "Fair Velvet". For details on how this all came about, please read the original thread (link below). This vote will be run in the same format as the montly contests found in the Music Cafe forum. Since this vote will be done blindly, some of the rules needed to be modified slightly. If any of these rules seem unfair, please let me know and we can discuss it.

Rules (read carefully):
  • In order to vote, you will need to provide the order of all 11 entries, starting with your favorite, in a reply to this thread. (most favorite = #1)
  • For your vote to be tallied, you must listen carefully and vote for every single entry. I will not accept partial votes.
  • Since this is a blind vote, I will not count the vote for your own track.
  • Once you place your vote, you cannot change it, unless I give you permission. (I will do my best to moderate this part of it, but since I am not a true moderator, please use the honor system)
  • If you have entered this competition, and you do not vote, I will not give you credit for votes you receive.
  • Voting will end 10/18/2008 at 12:00 AM PST - If you need longer, contact me and we can work something out.
  • All entries will be given a code name to make it more interesting. These code names will be replaced with the submitters name after the voting has been completed. Please refer to these code names in your vote.
  • Please keep this thread clean and post any questions to the original thread or PM me directly. Discussion on this thread should be directly related to the entries. Please also be courteous to those that have submitted their work. (remember the golden rule)
  • If you intend to vote on this, please give me the heads up by responding to the poll.

Original Thread

Original Mix


Entries:



Happy voting! 8)
Last edited by Geoff242 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
KVRian
 
669 posts since 6 Jul, 2007, from In the space between the heavens and the corner of some foreign field...

Postby hackenslash; Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:28 pm

Had a listen through the first verse of each one. I have to say that they're very different. I spotted my own straight away, and it wasn't the one that I thought was the best. I've only listened on cans as yet, so I'm going to d/l the lot and take them to the pit tomorrow, where I can listen properly.

Good work, everyone. They're all good, and all very different. 8) 8) 8)
Please understand that this is coming from someone who quotes Terry Pratchett - Melkor
KVRist
 
43 posts since 22 Jun, 2008

Postby haudegen; Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:11 pm

hey nice poll. first i have to say all are good but there are some which are quite better than others ;) (#1 best - #11 not so good)

#1 : Mazarine
#2 : Nigrine
#3 : Perse
#4 : Nacarat
#5 : Aeneous
#6 : Indigo
#7 : Vermilion
#8 : Russet
#9 : Ultramarine
#10: Morel
#11: Zinnober

it makes lot of fun to master this track

greetings
KVRer
 
9 posts since 5 Sep, 2008, from The Far, Far East

Postby pearldivers; Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:27 pm

I will be voting a while later, once I've really listened. There are some similarities in a handful of the finished tracks.
The most obvious differences (to my ears) are in those where there are very audible additions of ambience and rather bright EQ curves.

There was always going to be a large grey area in this challenge. Firstly, there was no context within which to "master", no ability to ascertain the overall body of work that this song would sit inside. So it wasn't really "mastering" so much as "finalizing" the track according to...my ears. Here's where another professional/artistic grey area opens up: to what extent does the ME depart from the integrity of the original mix? Does the ME become a remixer, or "artist" (as in performer) even? How far does the ME go in colouring the master? For me it was trying to retain as much of the original mix as possible (assuming that was what the band/producer wanted) but polishing a tad here and there and giving it a level boost for commercial/market reasons. I hear some versions here that have altered the original mix quite dramatically. For better or for worse? It's in the ears of the listeners...and, most importantly, of the client.

To be frank, I don't know which master is mine, but I do know which ones are not. There are source limitations that make reviewing hard, given that these are MP3 files. My master here in my room sounds sharper/better defined that what I'm hearing here, so I'll have to try to ascertain which one is closest, given those limitations.

But it is a fun process and I'm enjoying the listens to everyone's efforts.

Jet 8)

www.pearldivers.net
KVRAF
 
1680 posts since 10 Feb, 2008, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Nokenoku; Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:55 am

pearldivers wrote:I hear some versions here that have altered the original mix quite dramatically. For better or for worse? It's in the ears of the listeners...and, most importantly, of the client.
I agree, especially those masses of reverb appearing in some of the versions just don't belong to mastering.

I'll give my voting in a few hours/days.
KVRist
 
43 posts since 22 Jun, 2008

Postby haudegen; Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:55 am

those masses of reverb don't belong to mastering thats right but when they appear in the mix so the mastering can't remove them. so i think the drums where recorded in a not so good room or a reverb effect has a to high volume and that comes through by some versions.
Last edited by haudegen on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRist
 
81 posts since 23 Feb, 2007, from Belgium

Postby Zsolt; Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:34 am

Some very different results indeed. I'm anxious to see the public opinion about this.
When the voting ends, are we going to be able to state what tools we used and how much we worked on it? As that makes a huge difference in how we see the results; also we can learn a lot from that.
My list will follow soon. I already know which one I like the most and which one the least, now all the spaces in between has to be filled ;)

regards,
Zsolt

Here's my list of the original entries. Didn't listen to all the later entries, so they're not included.

1. Perse
2. Ultramarine
3. Russet
4. Aeneous
5. Morel
6. Nacarat
7. Vermilion
8. Indigo
9. Mazarine
10. Nigrine
11. Zinnober

I'll give my detailed thoughts about my entry and the others after the results are in.

regards,
Zsolt
Last edited by Zsolt on Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRian
 
638 posts since 9 Jul, 2006

Postby ocmtime; Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:27 am

could i post my version on zshare and link it here ?
it's louder than mazaraine's ... just for fun please :)
KVRist
 
278 posts since 18 Aug, 2006

Postby KleVeR; Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:30 am

Interesting results! Really all of them very different..

Personally I like the "Ultramarine" version.. has punch and sounds 'direct'.

What I don't get is like someone else noticed: some versions sound as if they were drowned in reverb (e.g. Mazarine, Nigrine).
Normally in mastering there shouldn't be a need for any reverb or delay on the stereo master.

There are some seldom exceptions of course, like when the mix of a song ends too abruptly and there is a need to make it end smooth or blend into the next tune on the album. Then the song can profit from only the very last portion of the song being reverbed, delayed, whatever suites best....
KVRist
 
43 posts since 22 Jun, 2008

Postby haudegen; Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:39 am

@ocmtime: mind the dynamics ;) if you look at mazarine there are dynamics... if you brickwall limit the song to top notch rms and no dynamics aren't there anymore, thats not the goal of a master ... if think the person who mastered mazarine took attention on MS Processing an linear frequency spektrum ...

Ultramarine sounds very punchy of ourse but i think it doesn't have so much impact ;)
KVRAF
 
1680 posts since 10 Feb, 2008, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Nokenoku; Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:14 am

KleVeR wrote:What I don't get is like someone else noticed: some versions sound as if they were drowned in reverb (e.g. Mazarine, Nigrine).
Normally in mastering there shouldn't be a need for any reverb or delay on the stereo master.
Those were the two I meant.

But it could also come a lot from widening of the stereo-field. That or reverb .. at least one thing is too much on those two versions in my opinion.



EDIT VOTE:

The good/ok ones:
1. Aeneous
2. Ultramarine (could sound a little bit fuller; starts with good loudness, but looses it after a few seconds .. leveler used?)
3. Nacarat (could have a little bit more punch; unsymmetric; imo too much saturation)
4. Indigo (could have a little bit more presence; could be louder)
5. Vermillion (could have a little bit more presence; could be louder)

The bad/not so good ones:
6. Russet (too much bass; too muddy)
7. Morel (very strange frequency balance)
8. Nigrine (too much reverb added; strange sound; too loud)
9. Marazine (too much reverb added; much too loud/smashed)
10. Perse (extremely harsh sounding)
11. Zinnober (extremely muddy sound)

Edited on 07 oct
Last edited by Nokenoku on Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
KVRist
 
409 posts since 23 Nov, 2007, from Beaverton, OR
 

Postby Geoff242; Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:35 am

To those of you who have posted in this thread without voting so far, when you are ready to post your vote, please edit your first post in this thread and add the vote to it. This will help consolidate this thread.

ocmtime: You are welcome to post your version. But I expect that you vote as well, please.

Zsolt: I will post the descriptions of the tools everyone used once the voting ends. So if you haven't sent that to me yet, please do so in the next 2 weeks.

haudegen: The reverb on the drums is mostly natural except for a send on the snare, in which I used SH-1. The send is about at -12db and the delay time is fairly low. Some of the reverb you may be hearing is from the ambient and room microphones, so it's natural. I used BFD2 for these drums, so the room in which they are recorded is one of the best.
KVRer
 
9 posts since 5 Sep, 2008, from The Far, Far East

Postby pearldivers; Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:45 am

My philosophy is "The Mix Is Your Yardarm"...so...

In terms of mix source and commercial dB levels:

1. Russet. (very smooth; loud enough; mix integrity). I like this master the most, just ahead of...
2. Zinnober (slightly less smooth on vox c.f. Russet; loud enough; mix integrity)

3. Nacarat (less bottom end; loud enough; slightly more crispy vox)
4. Aeneous (less bottom end; loud enough; more crispy vocal)

Then, in terms of commercial/market dB levels:

5. Indigo (low volume level c.f. other masters, but mix integrity)
6. Vermilion (lowest volume level, but mix integrity)
7. Ultramarine (weakest bottom end, but more mix integrity)

Followed by the "coloured" masters:

8. Perse (added EQ and ambience)
9. Nigrine (very noticeably added ambience)
10.Mazarine (added ambience; harsher overall EQ curve)
11.Morel (very crispy EQ; more harsh vocal; harsh snare)

Jet 8)

It was immense fun to take this on. :)
KVRer
 
9 posts since 5 Sep, 2008, from The Far, Far East

Postby pearldivers; Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:54 am

P.S. Happy Birthday to Me.
KVRer
 
9 posts since 5 Sep, 2008, from The Far, Far East

Postby pearldivers; Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:55 am

Did I say "Happy Birthday To Me"?
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