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3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:10 pm Tracktion - Consolidated Bug Thread

Okay, so this list is specifically to iterate the number and severity of bugs still present in tracktion
It's a follow-up thread to viewtopic.php?t=205067
The idea is to point out gotchas and workarounds to all tracktion users. The list has been sent to mackie support with no response.
Feature requests are not part of this list - for reference a bug is something which exists and should work but doesn't, a feature request is something which you want to exist but doesn't (ie. missing functions).

I'll start off:

0. More-than 2 Cores reduces performance - this problem does not occur on everybody's setup, but on most machines if you have a CPU with more than two cores, tracktion will actually lose performance and be unstable. Workaround: go into tracktion's settings and reduce the number of available cores to 2.

1. 6.5MBPS audio buffering limitation - tracktion cannot stream more than 6.5MBPS of audio data (e.g 24 concurrent tracks of 24bit 96khz mono WAV audio data) off a hard drive regardless of hard drive speed and random read rate (SSD's included). Present from T1 onwards. Changing the cache size in tracktion settings to lower than the maximum of 150MB decreases the amount that tracktion can stream even more significantly.
Example thread: viewtopic.php?t=263440
Workarounds: Muting tracks (even muting tracks with no current audio on them seems to help), bouncing multiple tracks down to one, freezing, working on one audio group at a time.

2. "Poof" crashes - They occur less frequently than in, but still exist with particular plugins and scenarios. This did not occur as much in Tracktion 2. Kontakt 2 and it's respective players seems to be one of the affected plugins.
Example thread: viewtopic.php?t=262442

3. Early (pre 1.2) flac engine used for lossless compression on project export - Results in 88khz audio not being encoded (tracktion crashes the export function) and 32-bit floating point audio doesn't get compressed. This is because there is no support for 88khz (in earlier flac version) or 32bit floating point audio in flac algorithms. Could easily be fixed by changing to another open source lossless audio algorithm like Wavpack, which does support 88khz, 192khz, 32-bit etc etc etc.

4. The logging bug - Appears to be a developer debug feature that was left on by mistake. T3 logs any and all activity, particularly automation activity, creating superfluous CPU & disk access (to the log file). Workaround by making tracktion's log file read-only.

5. The VSTCache issue - T3 appears to implement a linked-list of sorts to access plugin's, increasing the access times for plugins at the end of the list exponentially. Workaround by putting all plugins in a single directory and renaming the dll's of the ones you want fastest access to with a "z" at the front (VSTcache is reverse-alphabetical linked list).
Solution would be to use arrays of links instead of linked lists.
Example thread: viewtopic.php?t=237790

6. Unusable on Macs - too many threads to mention, IMHO looks like Mackie should really give up on this platform entirely and focus on getting a working PC version before anything else occurs.

7. Various problems with start-time sync for looped clips - see below.

8. Cutting and pasting frozen tracks results in much weird behaviours.

9. Weird midi record reverse delay bug: sometimes when recording midi from an external source, (eg. keyboard) tracktion will somehow place the recorded data before when it was actually recorded. You end up having to shift your midi data forward a little to get it to line up.
Fix: Disable "Use midi driver for midi timing" under settings->midi.

10. Offline VST send bug: Tracktion (has never) sent the 'offline' flag to VST's when rendering. THis means on specific plugins you have to manually switch the offline mode on, and on other's it can't operate.

11. Midi note edit bug: If a midi clip is loop-enabled, editing the length of selected midi notes becomes impossible. (WTF)

12. Select all - minus folders bug: Select all clips will not select clips within folder tracks that are not expanded (by design???).

13. Looped audio clip with per-clip effects + Recording Audio bug: Tracktion 3 will crash if it's recording audio and it comes to the end of a looped audio clip which has per-clip filters on it (effects). Wtf. Workaround: remove the filters from all looped audio clips while recording audio, restore once audio recording has finished.

14. Wave Arts plugins gui broken, possibly others: viewtopic.php?t=266862&start=0

15. Tracktion won't start: Traced to a corrupted logfile. Solution: delete logfile, and make read-only in future (as per above loggin bug workaround). viewtopic.php?t=268373

16. Mute doesn't affect end-to-end recording playback: If an audio input is end-to-end enabled, and is recording, hitting the mute button on the track should stop the input from being audible. However the track is still audible and passed through to the master channel.

17. Crash when checking normalised on master: Finding maximum/RMS value for entire edit/selected section on the master bus, when Izotope Ozone 4 (possible other plugs too, haven't checked) is on the master bus, causes tracktion to crash. Exporting is unaffected by this.

18. Render bugs: Tracktion will often render garbage if asked to trim silence at beginning and end. Particularly for longer edits, say > 10 minutes.

19. Realtime audio clip playback bug: if there are many wave audio clips, tracktion will fail to playback correctly, cutting in and out. Similar to the audio playback limitation above. viewtopic.php?p=3863202#3863202

20. Slowdowns with VST automation due to the vstcache structure (also slowdowns of automation recording due to logging bug as described above):

21. Doesn't like full stops in filenames:

22. Various plugin bugs:

23. "Hard drive full" fail:
doesn't inform user when a render or archive stops due to a hard drive being full.

24. Fails plugins scans on VSTcache build but not at other times.
Certain plugins seem to crash tracktion when doing initial VSTcache build and end up in the ignored plugins list, but removing them from the list and doing a "new and changed" rescan shows no errors. Could be very confusing for first-timers.

25. T1/T2 projects loaded into T3 and saved are no longer compatible with T1/T2:
T3 stores it's tempo in a different way to T1/T2. That would be fine except it always reverts the tempo that T1/T2 reads to 120bpm, while audio/midi clips stay in the same minutes/seconds timeline locations.
Load the project in t1. Go to the the edit tab, then bottom left there's a button called 'timecode' -> click on it -> turn off 'remap clip positions when tempo is changed'. Then change your tempo back to it's original value. Done!

26. Problems with hearing anything under directsound in win7/vista (where other applications play fine):
Workaround: install ASIO4all.

27. Tracktion plugin limits-
If you go over a certain amount of plugins (or possibly memory used by plugins?) in any given project, tracktion will crash to desktop. Repeatable and not limited to any particular plugin, just enough plugins. Not sure of the underlying mechanism, but enough available memory was there to cope with twice the amount of plugins, if tracktion handled it. Discovered in a 168-track project, so unlikely to be of issue to most people.
[UPDATE: seems to happen when tracktion's memory usage reaches around 1.5GB, or 1.2GB without /3gb switch defined in Windows]
Workaround: delete unused plugin instances, remove unused volume plugins, etc.

28. Decreased plugin GUI performance with some plugins-
Workaround: reduce number of plugins and subfolders in plugin directory

29. Tracktion adds sub-audible noise to audio output even when not playing and e-e not on - noticable via clipping when playing back audio externally with tracktion open.

30. Pitch-changed clips will play back in full when scrubbing through a track.

31. Routing madness - in many cases if you do multiple routing - ie. outputting a bunch of tracks to a bus, and then outputting a bunch of buses to a single track - you can get unexpected and unexplainable mass-CPU usage. Even if there's nothing on the track, outputting the same buses to Main output (default) removes the high CPU usage.
Workaround - don't route, or set up alternate routing that doesn't cause the high CPU usage. There's not a lot of rhyme or reason to this one.

32. Loopy badness - in cases when many acidised loops are used in a given project, tracktion may become unstable:

33. If you have 2 audio clips on consecutive tracks, then try and copy and paste those onto a track with a folder-track right after it, tracktion will crash.

34. Waves plugins crash on startup scanning. Workaround:

35. Multicore-capable version of Sfz in DFD mode may cause tracktion to crash (may be SFz's fault). Change to SF or PR mode.

36. Tracktion is not fully capable of routing track output to any output device other than the default. Causes massive problems. No workaround other than to not use multiple output devices.

37. Mono plugins used per-clip return only one channel rather than a 'mono' stereo channel ie. Use a mono vst and you get left channel return only. Workaround: put clip onto separate track, use the mono plugin on that track and then route that track to the former track.

38. Tracktion has problems running in Win7. Workaround: run tracktion in WinXP Sp2 compatibility mode. Either than or install XP instead.

39. Tracktion has problems exporting midi when there are plugins on the master channel. Workaround: disable all plugins on master channel.

40. Ozone 4 doesn't initialise properly under certain circumstances.
If using mid-side eq in digital eq-mode in Ozone 4, unless you specifically click on the plugin so that the interface loads, tracktion will not initialise the eq module. Unfortunately this appears to be a Tracktion bug, not a generic one, as I can't replicate it in other hosts. Hence the bug may or may not affect some other plugins.
Workaround: change mid-side eq to Analog mode, or click on every instance of ozone 4 in your project when you load it...

41. Broken automation recording.
With some plugins this works fine, however with many it just doesn't happen. Instead tracktion records only a few data points, and the recorded data isn't useful. Examples include: Ozone 4, sonalksis freeG.
Workaround: Draw automation manually, switch plugins.

42. First note bug.
Tracktion sometimes drops the first note (from a midi clip) with certain plugins. Or something. I dunno, it's been there since T1, look it up.
Workaround: Shift your song 1 bar forward.

43. Copying and pasting tracks disturbs their routing.
Ideally cutting and pasting a track from one edit to another should result in the track in question routing to the same numbered track as in the previous edit - or in the case of cutting and pasting groups of tracks where the routing is internal (for example, a bunch of vox tracks routing to a vox bus track which then outputs to main out, all of which are cut and pasted together, either as a folder track or just a bunch of tracks), the routing should be retained within the group when cutting and pasting -
however what we find is that routing becomes completely random when cutting and pasting tracks within or between projects, which can cause some tricky bugs in projects until you figure out that somethings not routing to the same place as it was last time.
Workaround: Check your track output Every time you cut and paste a track, unless there's no routing going on.

44. Exporting project in lossy format results in crash
Discovered in T3, same in T4-
exporting project with lossy settings (e.g 4:1 or 8:1) on a project with 24-96 audio (could be for other formats as well, don't know) results in the export function crashing.
Same in T4.03 but it throws a pure virtual function call error (R6025).

45. Mono plugs on clips return a left-channel-only signal to the mixer (should be center). Workaround: stick clip on new track and put mono plug on that track, or use stereo version of plug on clip.

46. "text" filter before volume filter on folder track mutes volume filter.
Workaround: put "text" filter after volume filter on folder track.

Last edited by metamorphosis on Wed May 15, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 59 times in total.
755 posts since 4 Jun, 2004

Postby frankvg; Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:31 am

metamorphosis wrote:6. Unusable on Macs - too many threads to mention, IMHO looks like Mackie should really give up on this platform entirely and focus on getting a working PC version before anything else occurs.

Sounds like a feature request to me.... :(
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:42 am

Fair enough :) Main point that it's unusable on macs though.
User avatar
29434 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:44 am

Realtime rendering of output of Virus Ti is broken - output is a bad noise

Recording and playback of automation is very stuttery and basically the whole screen stops when recording it
276 posts since 8 Feb, 2004, from France

Postby oxbee; Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:05 pm

2. "Poof" crashes - They occur less frequently than in, but still exist.. They render Tracktion unusable in a serious work environment. Tracktion will occasionally and randomly crash with no prior warning or repeatable sequence of events. This did NOT occur in Tracktion 1 or 2.
Example thread: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2624 42

Have you ever tried another DAW? I don't know one that won't crash here and there during a studio session or whatever. Shit happens. That's only software and hardware had its failures back in the gear days. Sound engineers who messed up a record take because of a messed-up tape recorder are probably legion :)

I think Tracktion is a very stable tool anyway on PC in a sane audio environnement. I made many recordings of various simultaneous sources on it with pro requirements and it was more than OK. Not to say flawless.
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:18 pm

"This did NOT occur in Tracktion 1 or 2. "
6599 posts since 20 Jun, 2004, from Secret Underground Hideout

Postby androidlove; Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:52 pm

T2 disappeared on me a few hours ago
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004, from atop a katamari

Postby haydxn; Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:43 am

just discovered something annoying: when you stretch a clip (alt. drag the corner), it works fine if the stretch mode is set to "no time-stretching" - which is how i normally use it.

however, if you do set it to a specific stretching mode, the start point used for the clip is wrong; whatever calculations it is doing are not taking into account the clip's start time. Obviously, it is only something you'll experience if you are using a clip representing a segment NOT from the start of the file, but that is basically all my clips [i.e., if your clip starts at the start of the audio file, it will appear to work as normal]. I can't just export that part of the clip, because i require the time-stamping information for later when editing video.

To reproduce:
- add an audio file to a track.
- Drag the left-edge handle to the right, to trim a chunk from the start
- make sure the clip is set to 'no time-stretching', and that the wave is legible
- hold alt and drag the right-edge handle to stretch the clip, and notice that the wave stretches as expected (the start point and end point remains the same)
- now, change the stretch mode to one of the others.
- notice that the start point in the clip is now incorrect
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:11 pm

This may be related to a bug I just noticed:
If an audio clip is looped and pitch-changed with timestretch on (or just timestretched), and you move the cursor during playback to the first iteration of the clip (ie the non-loop)
the audio in the clip will be out of sync. If you start playing from before the first iteration, the audio will sync fine.
All of the secondary iterations (ie. the looped) will always be in time.
2721 posts since 18 May, 2003, from Sweden

Postby Spitfire31; Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:20 am

I really can't imagine where people get their stamina to carry on these endless discussions about Tracktion.

This DAW is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! Its metabolic processes are now history! It's off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile! TRACKTION IS AN EX-DAW!

To paraphrase a well-known number by a couple of rather well-known British guys… :D

If it were easy, anybody could do it!
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:56 am

Yes, thank you for the pointless yet poetic sendoff.
Unfortunately some of us still have projects tied to it, so regardless of it's (unannounced) fate, it's useful to know the gotchas and workarounds. Please bugger off.
755 posts since 4 Jun, 2004

Postby frankvg; Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:09 pm

It's expired and gone to meet its maker!
Poor Jules.....
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:40 am

Last time I talked to him he said he reckoned they still had plans for it - despite being out of the loop. Then again, plans could mean letting it die then coming back with a sequel where it rises from the dead again. When the userbase least expects it...
755 posts since 4 Jun, 2004

Postby frankvg; Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:27 am

metamorphosis wrote:When the userbase least expects it...
If there is actually anyone left, that is
3715 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:13 pm

Oh, I imagine we'll also be all dead by that point. New bug: midi record. See above.

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