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Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
 
5563 posts since 13 Feb, 2006, from Wiesmoor, Germany

Postby Bronto Scorpio; Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:54 pm Post your Zebra supersaw tricks and presets here!

Hi everyone!

Since there are some supersaw threads lately I thought it might be a good idea to share one of the presets from my Zebra bank a bit earlier :)

This is NOT an emulation of a JP-8000 supersaw, just a cheesy interpretation of a cheesy trance pad :hihi:
Aftertouch controls vibrato and the modwheel controls the trance gate (optimized for maximum cheesiness :hihi:)

You can download the preset here: http://www.bronto-scorpio-music.com/Dow ... perpad.h2p (Use "Save target as...")
And this is how it sounds like: http://www.bronto-scorpio-music.com/Mus ... adDemo.mp3

I hope you have a use for it!

Cheers
Dennis
Last edited by Bronto Scorpio on Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:10 pm

Cool. Can I use this thread as well than? :hihi:

After a good night sleep I'll write about some different ways to get supersaw oscs in Zebra + the JP8000 supersaw prototype I've been working 1/2 of the day.... or the final patch, who knows? ... just needs some more work. :)
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Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
 
5563 posts since 13 Feb, 2006, from Wiesmoor, Germany

Postby Bronto Scorpio; Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:13 pm

3ee wrote:Cool. Can I use this thread as well than? :hihi:
Of course!
I'll rename the thread to "Post your Zebra supersaw presets here" or something like that when you post your patch :)

Cheers
Dennis
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:18 pm

BTW.. checked out your patch... controlling detune via kb for a tighter supersaw :tu: ... diggin' the truans gate via MW as well :hihi:
Fred_Abstract
KVRist
 
314 posts since 27 Nov, 2009

Postby Fred_Abstract; Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:22 am

can t load it in zebra , it s .txt i tried to rename as .h2p but it s not working
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:25 am

Fred_Abstract wrote:can t load it in zebra , it s .txt i tried to rename as .h2p but it s not working

Strange, mine is h2p and it worked like it should.
Try to download it again :shrug:
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:53 am

Here are a couple of ways to get different sounding supersaws/superwaves using Zebra.
http://www.box.net/shared/bjck6hfnoklzxsb3kpmv

1. Standard Supersaw: eleven, osc detune 10

2. Sweet Supersaw: eleven, osc detune 10, modmatrix OSC1:Detune modulated by LFO1(medium speed) by the amount of 8. The result will be a solid and "sweet" sounding chorus-ensemble like supersaw.

3. HyperComb Supersaw: quad, osc detune 10, OSCFX1: HyperComb to -50, oscfxmod: LFO1 to -44 (start with mid-fast rate and lower till all the artifacts appear to be gone)
The HyperComb can be set to positive values for self modulation, but it sounds phasey/flangey especially in Quad and Eleven oscillator modes, it sound different and it doesn't have that much of a modulation speed.
For the HyperComb Supersaw to work nicely, set the oscillator resolution to maximum!

4. Wavetable Supersaw: quad, osc detune 10, draw some sharp saw edges, duplicate and randomly move them around retaining some kind of architecture. Set the wave in the middle (wave 8.5) and modulate the WaveWarp with a sample and glide LFO shape.
This will result in a digital, timbre rich sync-ish superwave.

5a. JP-8000 Supersaw: 4OSCs (3 in dual mode and one in single mode), osc detune ? (see XY1, waveform modeled after Sendy's JP-8000 single supersaw waveform.
Now, I'm not claiming anything here, just, I think it turned out pretty close as far as I can tell atm. (Didn't check out Sendy's tech demos yet, probably I'll be refining the supersaw after that so I can include it within my JP-8000 patch.

5b. JP-8000 Supersaw(eco): same as 5a but only 3 OSCs used and the 3rd is set to quad mode. Ironically you'll get one extra wave (8 in total) using an oscillator less. It still retains it's character though + I like it better.

6. Keyscale Supersaw: this is an experimental supersaw that sorta' mimics the "voice" mod source does if you're modulating the oscillator pitch with it in Tyrell. This is done by setting the OSC to dual mode, detune to 10, keyscale to about 6 and holding down 4 notes one tone appart from each other (C,D,E,F#). You can also set the OSC to single mode and add some extra 3 notes.
The single mode with 7 voices is shown in the audio example.

7. Aliasing Supersaw: I've stumbled upon this when I was experimenting new ways to create cymbals. It works great for cymbal and atonal percussive stuff
but it's pretty unstable for a supersaw without the phase retrigger + it's unpredictable with different sample rates and it might not exist with future versions.... but it's the "perfect" texture for some cymbal and percussion stuff :love:

OSC in eleven mode and retrigger phase with keyscale to 0, detune 25 (finetune it afterwards), select an unused MMix for the tune mod source and set it to max.
ModMixer(sum modulations): On MOD1 and MOD3, select an unused MSEG (set the MSEG point(s) to max) and than finetune the constant knob to find your pitch/range of pitches.
Go back the the OSC module and fine tune the detune amount to make it sound like a supersaw .. or a cymbal :D
BTW... was mainly experimenting with these @ 44,1k samplerate so.. yeah :)

Added:

8a. Harmonic Pair Supersaw: four oscillators used on SpectroBlend mode. If you'll set them to single mode with re-triggered phase, you would get a "perfect" saw wave. anyway...
The resulting sound is more solid and digital with less beating. If it sounds too "digital" try sweetening it up (see Supersaw type 2) or other method.

8b. Harmonic Pair Supersaw": 3 OSCs in GeoMorph mode (so you can have the high end harmonic content with lower pitches. This is similar with type 8a, but with a slightly less digital sound and less solid... but it still retains the main character and it uses an oscillator less.
You can try setting the pairs to different modes to hear how it will sound. For example, "dual" mode really brings out the "digital" character.

Yep, 2 sq waves and a saw wave mixed at different octaves .
Set all OSCs to single mode with re-triggered phase and check out the resulting wave using an oscilloscope. :) .. now mess with the oscillator phases.

Tips:
-You can try layering different types in different modes on different octaves. OSCFX like brightness, scale and filter or bandworks will help you fit the layers better.
Don't overdue the detune amount because ofter it will sound cheesy and stupid. IMO

-Control the detune amount with the keyboard follower using the modulation matrix (something like Dennis did in his patch) so that it's less detuned once playing higher notes (this will help tighten up the supersaw and allow more detune without sounding cheesy)
-Some other tips that may apply are: use small amounts of alternating MMapper to randomize some key parameters like tune or detune :P. or very subtle slow-mid rate phase and/or pitch modulations....
bla blah...

Here are the patches: http://www.box.net/shared/nh40h694j1ilo0mmm4xh
and the Harmonic Pair ones: http://www.box.net/shared/k2kq38c94gmzux5s4il4
Don't forget to use XY1 to control the JP-8000 detune.
Cheers, :)
3ee
Last edited by 3ee on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bronto Scorpio
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5563 posts since 13 Feb, 2006, from Wiesmoor, Germany

Postby Bronto Scorpio; Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:53 am

Fred_Abstract wrote:can t load it in zebra , it s .txt i tried to rename as .h2p but it s not working
Try right-click -> save target as :)

Cheers
Dennis
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Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
 
5563 posts since 13 Feb, 2006, from Wiesmoor, Germany

Postby Bronto Scorpio; Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:55 am

@3ee: Thanks for the tricks and the patches! I'll check them out in a minute! :)
You already mentioned some OscFX but here is another useful OscFX trick:
Use the fundamental OscFX! It can really help to clean up the muddiness of pads if the fundamental is a bit lower in volume :)


Cheers
Dennis
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:05 am

Bronto Scorpio wrote:You already mentioned some OscFX but here is another useful OscFX trick:
Use the fundamental OscFX! It can really help to clean up the muddiness of pads if the fundamental is a bit lower in volume :)


Yeah, forgot about that + I've just remembered using the "Odd for Even" OSCFX mostly with negative (even) values as well... there are a few more, we just need to experiment and understand what they do! :)
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Sendy
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5231 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:08 am

Here's a link to the JP demo thread. I got it working again! Also, ignore the poll, I can't seem to delete it...

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332263

Also, check out Adam Szabo's JP6k if you're interested in supersaws. I've been playing with the demo and it's very very close to the real thing. I had them both going and was A/B-ing them and am quite impressed.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:16 am

Sendy wrote:Also, check out Adam Szabo's JP6k if you're interested in supersaws. I've been playing with the demo and it's very very close to the real thing. I had them both going and was A/B-ing them and am quite impressed.


Yep, installed the demo yesterday to check it out. Also stumbled upon this thread: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=60 and got some waves for comparisson. Replicating the JP-8000 supersaw seems to work best by grouping several oscs in different modes and controlling the tune and detune of each with the help of the XY controllers.
So far, so good :) have to finish reading the thread about supersaws and ...check out your tech waves already :P
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Bronto Scorpio
KVRAF
 
5563 posts since 13 Feb, 2006, from Wiesmoor, Germany

Postby Bronto Scorpio; Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:38 am

@3ee: Finally checked your presets! Great ideas and sounds :tu:

Cheers
Dennis
3ee
KVRAF
 
3601 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:50 am

Bronto Scorpio wrote:@3ee: Finally checked your presets! Great ideas and sounds :tu:

Cool! :) Thanks for the feedback!

Was testing for new ways how to supersaw in Zebra and found another cool new thing... will post that within the Zebra tips and tricks thread eventually. :)
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mcnoone
KVRAF
 
5985 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:44 pm

Thanks for the presets Dennis, and 3ee.
I'll check them out later.
:)
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