Opinions wanted: MIDI Controller Integration in MS2

[audiospillage]

Figured this was as good a place as any for opinions

We're pretty much finished with MS2 so expect the final release soon. One missing feature is MIDI controller integration. We're interested in any opinions on the most efficient/elegant and more importantly useful ways to achieve this.

Right now we're settling on these two modes of operation:

A: 8 assignable MIDI CC controls that work in a kind of 'global' mode but that only affect the pad currently being edited (or selected in some other way). For example, if control 1 is assigned to 'Env1 Attack Time' then the assigned CC will only affect the attack time of the selected pad. This simplifies the setup of a MIDI controller without having to assign controllers to each pad repeatedly which lets face it no-one will do. This was also called Sound Design Mode in a previous forum post where the concept may be explained more clearly.

B: In addition to the 8 global/sound design controls we would offer 4 additional MIDI CC controls per pad that you can freely assign to anything you like.

The combination of A and B allows you to setup basic performance controls e.g. envelope attack/release/volume/pan etc whilst still offering the potential to freely assign MIDI CCs to anything you wish.

This seems to offer a good compromise between flexibility and efficiency and is also the reason for the large empty area at the bottom of the editing GUI.

We welcome your opinion and feedback on these ideas.

Thanks,
AudioSpillage

[renderful]

I think that what you've laid out here sounds good.

The only other thing I'd want, and it's most likely a tall order, is two way Launchpad integration for the step sequencer ala Numerology. Although, personally, I could just do this *with* Numerology, but then I'd lose your nifty polyrhythmic sequencer.(although I guess I could implement this in Numerology somehow)

[UncleAge]

I like that plan.

[audiospillage]

The only other thing I'd want, and it's most likely a tall order, is two way Launchpad integration for the step sequencer ala Numerology.

Luanchpad integration sounds nice but as you anticipated it's a tall order right now. Still, maybe some MIDI control for the sequencer would be useful.

[Cintronic]

I am using a Korg nanopad 2 with minispilage 2 for the drum pads. They work together very well. I will try the x-y pad for fx on the drums at some point.

[jonahs]

Will we be able to switch sounds via MIDI without triggering them in sound design mode?

With the sequencer MIDI control of any or all of these features would be useful: step entry, dedicated knobs for velocity and the 2 assignable parameters, track end point, next and previous pattern switching, mute and solo. I enjoy using the nice GUI for feedback of what's going on, but being able to perform and jam on the pattern and tracks that I have would be welcome.

I just want to elaborate on changing the track end point a bit. I've found the sequencer to be a pretty awesome for on the fly rhythm creation especially because any parameter automation you create stays even if you shrink the track end point so by changing this on the fly you can get some nice dynamic rhythms going especially combined with mutes. It's very fun and intuitive to create rhythms like this. I guess it's similar to Live with clips, but I have a much easier time visualizing the way the sequences will interact in MS2.

By the way, sequencer parameter LFOs or some kind of programable per hit variation or external MIDI control would be awesome.

Oh, and MS2 is great. It was worth the wait.

[ekwipt]

If its relatively plug n play with Maschine and Numerology. I'd be happy.

A Liine lemur custom app and Ableton max for live would be great.

A standalone iPad app for sequencing duties only would be the ducks nuts

[jonahs]

Oh, what about poly aftertouch?

Most pad controllers send this and a lot of the ipad software sends it, often based on where you touch the controller, like higher up a keyboard key means more aftertouch.

It would be a cool way to control things like sequencer length, adjust LFO rate, sample and synth mix, etc. Plus a lot of pad controllers have 16 pads and it'd be neat to assign aftertouch controls to one pad and then trigger the notes with another.

[audiospillage]

If its relatively plug n play with Maschine and Numerology. I'd be happy.

A Liine lemur custom app and Ableton max for live would be great.

A standalone iPad app for sequencing duties only would be the ducks nuts

The ducks nuts sounds good! So you mean an app that allows you to edit the sequencer patterns etc but not a full on controller app? Food for thought.

AudioSpillage

[audiospillage]

Oh, what about poly aftertouch?

Most pad controllers send this and a lot of the ipad software sends it, often based on where you touch the controller, like higher up a keyboard key means more aftertouch.

It would be a cool way to control things like sequencer length, adjust LFO rate, sample and synth mix, etc. Plus a lot of pad controllers have 16 pads and it'd be neat to assign aftertouch controls to one pad and then trigger the notes with another.

I like these ideas a lot. If only the MIDI spec had more per-note parameters/polyphonic controllers like velocity and poly aftertouch. It would make a 'drag and drop pattern to host timeline' feature much more attractive. MIDI was introduced in the early eighties so I shouldn't complain.

Will look into all these cool ideas this week.

AudioSpillage

[ekwipt]

If its relatively plug n play with Maschine and Numerology. I'd be happy.

A Liine lemur custom app and Ableton max for live would be great.

A standalone iPad app for sequencing duties only would be the ducks nuts

The ducks nuts sounds good! So you mean an app that allows you to edit the sequencer patterns etc but not a full on controller app? Food for thought.

AudioSpillage

Well I guess you could go both ways but sometimes all you need is a sequencer as the sounds are pre-defined.

For live use i hate using the iPad as a control for synths parameters. I'd prefer to see a hybrid setup in this case. Real midi control for parameters (i need real knobs for tweaking) and virtual sequencer for sequencing.

I don't mind tapping on the screen but I don't like holding fingers down and dragging there's no physical feedback if you know what I mean.

I still like to see mini spillage sequencer in drumspillage though

[audiospillage]

If its relatively plug n play with Maschine and Numerology. I'd be happy.

A Liine lemur custom app and Ableton max for live would be great.

A standalone iPad app for sequencing duties only would be the ducks nuts

The ducks nuts sounds good! So you mean an app that allows you to edit the sequencer patterns etc but not a full on controller app? Food for thought.

AudioSpillage

Well I guess you could go both ways but sometimes all you need is a sequencer as the sounds are pre-defined.

For live use i hate using the iPad as a control for synths parameters. I'd prefer to see a hybrid setup in this case. Real midi control for parameters (i need real knobs for tweaking) and virtual sequencer for sequencing.

I don't mind tapping on the screen but I don't like holding fingers down and dragging there's no physical feedback if you know what I mean.

Totally. You can't feel your way to a knob/volume slider like you can with a MIDI controller/mixer so you always have to be staring at the screen. And once you're there there's no tactile feedback and half the time your finger covers the control you're tweaking so you can't even see what's going on.

I do love the iPad but I don't think traditional sliders and knobs work on it at all. Plenty of new ideas to explore.

I still like to see mini spillage sequencer in drumspillage though

Interesting. This seems to divide people a bit. Some people love the idea some people can't stand internal sequencers.

[ekwipt]

I hate DaWs piano rolls, they look damn ugly, at least Ableton has MaxforLive now.

I think a good arguement for an internal sequencer is that you don't have to switch between applications to write a pattern. I think Maschine does this very successfully, I would implement it pretty much exactly the same way, especially the live parameter changes, wow factor right there. Song mode is not really needed at least with Ableton IMO. If you could drag and drop a midi pattern from the sequencer directly into a Ableton midi clip, that would be awesome.

[jonahs]

I was messing around with the MIDI pattern play mode today and I noticed the lock option. It got me thinking that MIDI switching of kits might be cool, especially if you could manage to just change one pad at a time. In some situations this might be more useful even than editing the parameters.

I like the sequencer and the ideas in it a lot. It does things that other plugin hosts either don't do or not as easily. But what possessed you to add 2000% speed!? I actually think it's great features like are in MS and I like using some of the faster settings with MIDI pattern mode to make cool incidental sounds, transition effects/buildups,etc. It was kind of a (pleasant) surprise to see though.

While I'm off topic, the undocumented feature of swapping and copying pads with tracks took a little bit to figure out, but it's awesome! Any plans to do the same thing with patterns and also tracks in different patterns, so we could copy from one pattern to another without having to switch back and forth?

[syncr]

Oh hai. Haven't checked back on sound design mode for a bit and happy to see the implementation coming along. I don't have much to add at the moment but can you speak to when we will see this migrate back to DrumSpillage? Will this be a parallel to MS2's release or something to come later?

The hordes at the gate have their demands . Keep up the good work