Do hardware VA's alias as badly as software?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1580 posts since 22 Apr, 2011 from The House of Zaid
Just wondering from the people that have experience using them - do hardware VA's like Nord, Alesis, Access Virus, Roland etc... tend to suffer form aliasing in the upper register similarly to VSTi's that aren't oversampled?
Thanks,
Thanks,
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
- KVRAF
- 23115 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Not all of them. Yamaha AN1x has almost no aliasing even when playing hardsync sounds very high. John Bowen Solaris works at 96kHz, so it also has almost indiscernibly low amounts of aliasing. Korg Kronos VA engines are the same - very clean sound and very very low on aliasing.
Nord Lead, Virus, V-Synth, they all alias much worse than those I stated above. Especially V-Synth.
Nord Lead, Virus, V-Synth, they all alias much worse than those I stated above. Especially V-Synth.
- u-he
- 28108 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
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- Banned
- 1374 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Finland
What does the aliasing you are talking about sound like? Any examples?EvilDragon wrote:Not all of them. Yamaha AN1x has almost no aliasing even when playing hardsync sounds very high. John Bowen Solaris works at 96kHz, so it also has almost indiscernibly low amounts of aliasing. Korg Kronos VA engines are the same - very clean sound and very very low on aliasing.
Nord Lead, Virus, V-Synth, they all alias much worse than those I stated above. Especially V-Synth.
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Aroused by JarJar Aroused by JarJar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191505
- KVRian
- 1048 posts since 16 Oct, 2008
Hardware synthesizers alias to varying degrees, and in many cases if a software synthesizer aliased as much there would be jeering and scoffing, but people kid themselves about their hardware synths (which have latency, too, another thing never talked about). The low-level noise and phase smearing that are inevitable when taking a digital synth out through an analog cable and amplifier also mitigate the effect of artifacts- anyone can turn their softsynths into hardware by using a dedicated computer or in/out system and treating them as hardware.Urs wrote:Not all software aliases badly
Digital synthesizers may also be made to have effectively zero aliasing except when aliasing is desired for some reason. I don't know if any hardware synths have the horsepower to do this without severely limiting audio-rate modulation possibilities.
- KVRAF
- 23115 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I only have AN1x here, but currently no means of recording it.
It is really insignificant in the big picture (playing live, for example). Yamaha's engineers really did wonders to do away with aliasing on the AN1x.
It is really insignificant in the big picture (playing live, for example). Yamaha's engineers really did wonders to do away with aliasing on the AN1x.
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- KVRAF
- 4888 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
NO for a very good reason. All software is coded differently. They are not the same. As Urs pointed out some alias badly, some not at all, some little etc.etc.@midnight wrote:Just wondering from the people that have experience using them - do hardware VA's like Nord, Alesis, Access Virus, Roland etc... tend to suffer form aliasing in the upper register similarly to VSTi's that aren't oversampled?
Thanks,
- KVRAF
- 9588 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Depends on internal sample rates, use of band limited filters and the DAC to name a few factors
Amazon: why not use an alternative
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- Banned
- 1374 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Finland
So what you are basically saying is that none of you have any idea what it actually is..
- KVRAF
- 23115 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I know what aliasing is and how it sounds. It's somewhat similar to ringmodulation, because when you cross over the Nyquist limit (half the sample rate), the frequencies crossing over are aliased to the low frequency range, which generates unwanted sidebands in your sound.
Here's an example of aliasing of synced square wave on a Kurzweil PC3:
https://www.box.com/shared/bybb60ja3y
AN1x doesn't have this lower frequency ringing aliasing noise with synced square wave played this high at all.
Here's an example of aliasing of synced square wave on a Kurzweil PC3:
https://www.box.com/shared/bybb60ja3y
AN1x doesn't have this lower frequency ringing aliasing noise with synced square wave played this high at all.
Last edited by EvilDragon on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4888 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
No,only you said this. We do have idea what actually is but we are trying to be simple as can be simple. Question is very relative and depend on company which produce gear, particular model of an instrument, then we can debate why it does or does not alias and there is really a lot of factors to it.mkdr wrote:So what you are basically saying is that none of you have any idea what it actually is..
What do you can't understand from other people posts?
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- KVRian
- 660 posts since 12 Sep, 2007 from Sweden
Yes, the software in hardware synths is coded differently. The hardware is usually very similar though (typically Freescale/Motorola DSP chips). In theory, you could plug the Virus C code into a Supernova II...of course it would only use one of the ~9 or so DSP chips since that's all the C had.kmonkey wrote:NO for a very good reason. All software is coded differently. They are not the same. As Urs pointed out some alias badly, some not at all, some little etc.etc.@midnight wrote:Just wondering from the people that have experience using them - do hardware VA's like Nord, Alesis, Access Virus, Roland etc... tend to suffer form aliasing in the upper register similarly to VSTi's that aren't oversampled?
Thanks,
Hardware: Akai MPK61, MFB-Synth II, Roland JX-8P, Virus TI Snow, KORG MS2000R, Roland SH-01
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
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Aroused by JarJar Aroused by JarJar https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=191505
- KVRian
- 1048 posts since 16 Oct, 2008
...but different languages don't change the universal realities of DSP such as Nyquist and aliasing.JimmiG wrote:Yes, the software in hardware synths is coded differently. The hardware is usually very similar though (typically Freescale/Motorola DSP chips). In theory, you could plug the Virus C code into a Supernova II...of course it would only use one of the ~9 or so DSP chips since that's all the C had.kmonkey wrote:NO for a very good reason. All software is coded differently. They are not the same. As Urs pointed out some alias badly, some not at all, some little etc.etc.@midnight wrote:Just wondering from the people that have experience using them - do hardware VA's like Nord, Alesis, Access Virus, Roland etc... tend to suffer form aliasing in the upper register similarly to VSTi's that aren't oversampled?
Thanks,
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- KVRAF
- 4888 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
Of course not in the same way as they don't limit particular DSP developer to produce own clever algorithm to fight with this limitationAroused by JarJar wrote:...but different languages don't change the universal realities of DSP such as Nyquist and aliasing.JimmiG wrote:Yes, the software in hardware synths is coded differently. The hardware is usually very similar though (typically Freescale/Motorola DSP chips). In theory, you could plug the Virus C code into a Supernova II...of course it would only use one of the ~9 or so DSP chips since that's all the C had.kmonkey wrote:NO for a very good reason. All software is coded differently. They are not the same. As Urs pointed out some alias badly, some not at all, some little etc.etc.@midnight wrote:Just wondering from the people that have experience using them - do hardware VA's like Nord, Alesis, Access Virus, Roland etc... tend to suffer form aliasing in the upper register similarly to VSTi's that aren't oversampled?
Thanks,