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Attempting to recreate Mozart as authentically as possible.Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, Hollywood Strings

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Moderators: Scoops, Moderators (Main)

KVRer
 
10 posts since 28 Nov, 2012

Postby glenrhodes; Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:31 pm Attempting to recreate Mozart as authentically as possible.Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, Hollywood Strings

Hi everyone.

My goal with VST instruments is to compose with absolute realism. I've composed a few dozen pieces recently, and to test my "programming" chops, I've just finished putting together Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" as a proof of concept in strings quality, using EWQL Hollywood Strings.

Have a listen and let me know what you all think.

http://www.glenrhodes.com/music/eknachtmusik.mp3

Thanks!
Glen

http://www.soundcloud.com/glenrhodes
Last edited by glenrhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
2423 posts since 31 Oct, 2004, from Mtl, Canada
 

Postby SampleScience; Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:46 pm

It sounds very good. It shows a bit that it's programmed, it's a bit "static" (but not very much) compared to the real thing. Still, I think it's a very nice work. :)
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KVRAF
 
2525 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York
  

Postby Frantz; Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:26 pm

I predict an expert on classical violin will have some answers for you soon. :)
Last edited by Frantz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRist
 
360 posts since 17 Oct, 2002

Postby Baxter; Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:24 pm

Hi, glenrhodes!

I've played violin (classical) for over 50 years, and I've played this thing about a gazillion times, and I do have a few comments, though I don't have a lot of time right now (maybe later). I think Mozart is a really good choice for getting your programming chops together. First off, I think that your basic sound is really good. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that this library gets as close as it does. The good news is that the lower and middle voices are in fairly good shape.

The secret to the violin parts is in the fine details of the phrasing. For instance, in Mozart it is more common to crescendo going up the scale, even if you have to get a bit quieter at first in order to do so, and decrescendo going down, though this is not a hard and fast rule. Bar 20 is a good example. I like the way you "sting" the first note in the violins, but then try starting from about a mezzo piano and condescending to a forte by the first beat of bar 22. But, one thing to keep in mind is that you can over do this, since violins will tend to get louder when they ascend the scale anyway, as well as getting quieter going down.

In bar 28, where the new phrase begins, you are accenting the last note of the downward scale in the violins (A natural on beat 1 descending to a D natural on beat 3), and if anything, the scale should kind of fall off to the last note, with the last note then being no big deal, though not too soft. In fact, it is kind of uncommon to accent the last note of the phrase in Mozart, especially if it the are repeated notes, such as the end of the phrase just before this, in bar 27.

If you really want to get Mozart right, the best way is to listen to A LOT OF MOZART! One mistake that a lot of people make, but you haven't made, is to be too dainty or prissy. This stuff can be surprisingly muscular at times, more so than one might think. It took me quite a while to finally "get" Mozart, and I actually remember when it happened. It was during a lesson when I was studying the 5th violin concerto. All of the sudden it just kind of clicked. But, I had played a lot of his music prior to that. But, I think you are on the right track. Good job!

Cheers!
Baxter
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KVRAF
 
10136 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:38 pm

Baxter wrote:Woah!

Thanks - that was a great post :)

Peace,
Andy.
KVRer
 
10 posts since 28 Nov, 2012

Postby glenrhodes; Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:11 pm

Baxter wrote:Hi, glenrhodes!


The secret to the violin parts is in the fine details of the phrasing. For instance, in Mozart it is more common to crescendo going up the scale, even if you have to get a bit quieter at first in order to do so, and decrescendo going down, though this is not a hard and fast rule. Bar 20 is a good example. I like the way you "sting" the first note in the violins, but then try starting from about a mezzo piano and condescending to a forte by the first beat of bar 22. But, one thing to keep in mind is that you can over do this, since violins will tend to get louder when they ascend the scale anyway, as well as getting quieter going down.

In bar 28, where the new phrase begins, you are accenting the last note of the downward scale in the violins (A natural on beat 1 descending to a D natural on beat 3), and if anything, the scale should kind of fall off to the last note, with the last note then being no big deal, though not too soft. In fact, it is kind of uncommon to accent the last note of the phrase in Mozart, especially if it the are repeated notes, such as the end of the phrase just before this, in bar 27.

Cheers!
Baxter


Thank you SO much for such a detailed, insightful and constructive response. I found it interesting when I was programming this as I would ask myself the very questions that you have answered. I compared it to recordings, but that still doesn't get me in the mind of a player - which is where the programming becomes human.. adding the nuances of an individual human and section. So, a simple thing like 'crescendo on upward scale' - I suppose listening to a recording now I can hear that.. but I didn't fully realize what I was hearing until I read what you wrote.

And that's just it - growth and improvement happens one trick at a time.

Thank you so much.
Glen
KVRian
 
598 posts since 30 Jan, 2005, from berlin

Postby forw; Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:21 am

great post, baxter!!

maybe it's a matter of taste but I think the dynamic range could be a liiiiittle bigger here and there. crescendos could end a little louder.

..but very well done for my ears!!

forw
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KVRAF
 
10136 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:29 am

I should have also said - it was a joy to listen to the OP's recreation! :oops:

Agree about dynamics comments, though.

Peace,
Andy.
KVRAF
 
6227 posts since 6 Sep, 2008
 

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:38 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:I should have also said - it was a joy to listen to the OP's recreation! :oops:

Agree about dynamics comments, though.

Peace,
Andy.
+1

Fantastisch :clap:
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Mar, 2008, from Detriot Michigan USA
 

Postby any1particular; Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:52 am

Wowowowowowowowow weeeeeeeeee!

Someone put ALLLLOT of work into this!

And it shows.

Verrrrry nice....:)
KVRer
 
10 posts since 28 Nov, 2012

Postby glenrhodes; Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:47 pm

Thank you all for your feedback. I've also got a soundcloud page of my own cinematic/film compositions (and another classical piece; Bach's Air on the G String).

http://www.soundcloud.com/glenrhodes

I'm going to play with the dynamics on Eine Kleine Nachtmusik - I think it could use more dynamic range, but I want to make sure not to ever let it sound weak or timid.

Glen
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KVRAF
 
6507 posts since 13 Mar, 2009, from UK
  

Postby seismic1; Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:51 pm

Really diggin' this tune :wink:

I have listened to this 3 or 4 times now, and really enjoyed it. I think it has a very "natural" sound, and, had I not read your preamble, would have assumed that this was an orchestral performance.

A fine piece of work :tu:
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KVRAF
 
4275 posts since 5 Aug, 2006, from UK - Here!
  

Postby folderol; Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:00 pm

This is simply astonishing! :hyper: :clap: :tu:
It wasn't me! (well, actually, it probably was)
KVRist
 
43 posts since 22 May, 2005, from Istanbul, Turkey

Postby kukla; Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:59 am

Great ! This is not just the programming skills :ud: :wink:

Thanks.

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