Hardware Instrument>Macro for CC

[Crackbaby]

I'd like those eight macroknobs to be mappable to CCs. Not sure how to use a virtual knob to tweak hardware synth parameters as it is now. Or if you use a controller to tweak the hardware synth.

Any ideas?

Assigning multiple CCs to a single macroknob would be cool of course!

[ThomasHelzle]

Not possible yet out of the box, but Blue Cat has a nice plugin that can do it and more (and you can bind it to macros in turn, even multiple):
http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Pr ... teControl/

You can find other free midi VST plugins able to send CCs, for instant in the PizMidi collection and others, but they aren't as deep.

Cheers,

Tom

[qtheerearranger]

This is obviously not a priority for bit wig at the moment, but I would imagine it will be implemented in due time.

[TeePee]

It might be an idea to get the Hardware Instrument plugin working properly first .

[Crackbaby]

Ahh, i didn't know there were problems with that. Well, i tried it briefly and i got notes sent to my A4, but it didn't seem to send midi clock.

[TeePee]

Ahh, i didn't know there were problems with that. Well, i tried it briefly and i got notes sent to my A4, but it didn't seem to send midi clock.

Hardware Instrument - MIDI Mis-Aligned when Software Monitoring


If you're monitoring your synth via Bitwig, the MIDI will be sent a roundtrip later than you need. So the audio from your synth will be a roundtrip late. The higher your latency, the greater the mis-alignment.

If you're hardware monitoring your synth, the MIDI will be roughly on time, but this makes the Audio In on the Hardware Instrument plugin pointless because the audio coming from your synth will be late.

re: MIDI clock

You have to add a Generic MIDI Clock Transmitter: Preferences > Controllers > Add controller manually. But you won't be able to adjust the MIDI clock's timing - not a problem if you're hardware monitoring your external synth.

If you're monitoring your synth via Bitwig, you also need to send the MIDI clock a roundtrip earlier. Otherwise, other MIDI messages will not be in sync with the MIDI clock.

[Crackbaby]

Aha thanks!

If you record, will bitwig adjust for the roundtrip or will everything be out of sync? I plan to hardware monitor my synths, but every now and then record a loop.

[ThomasHelzle]

I just found a (windows only) VST that I think should be helpful for those who work with external hardware:
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/redelay ... roductions


It allows for mainly two things:
a.) delay the signal in very fine steps.
b.) define the delay reported to the host.

So if you put it in front of an Hardware Instrument/FX device, this would allow you to define the delay of your external Synth or Effect so PDC works.

I can't try it myself so let us know if it works!

Cheers,

Tom

[TeePee]

I've been using Expert Sleepers Latency Fixer to do this in Logic. I'll give this one a go and report back after some test recordings using the Hardware Instrument plugin.

I've tried to do the same thing in Live and Reaper before but it didn't work because the timing of the MIDI wasn't affected by Latency Fixer's artificially reported PDC latency. The audio was delayed by PDC, but the MIDI's timing didn't change. In other words, the PDC timing wasn't applied to the MIDI, just the audio.

Logic can schedule multiple copies of the same MIDI stream/region to run at any point in time. It really is a work of art. I haven't found anything to match it. I'm just hoping Bitwig are listening...

[TeePee]

Looking at your screenshot, it looks like a combined sample/buffer delay and latency fixer plugin. The buffer delay creates latency/delays, and the latency fixer reports latency that doesn't exist, or can be used to fix the PDC for a plugin that's reporting it's latency incorrectly.

The problem with buffer/sample delays is that they increase monitoring latency. Still, it may be a temporary fix.

I'll report back.

[ThomasHelzle]

Yeah, but you don't need to use the delay part - that's optional.

Found one more that's even available for Mac and PC:
http://www.voxengo.com/product/latencydelay/

Of course this whole idea is only meant as a temporary fix!

Cheers,

Tom

[TeePee]

Yeah, but you don't need to use the delay part - that's optional.

At the moment, on my system, Bitwig's MIDI is occurring ~2.6 ms ahead of the arrange grid. I have an external synth with an average MIDI response time under 1 ms, which means it's audio will be early.

I could possibly use the buffer delay part of the plugin you posted, but it would slow down the response time of that synth when playing it live. Not ideal.


Bitwig needs both positive & negative track delays.


I can already see problems before I start testing though. I suspect Bitwig's PDC is delay-only PDC, which means it'll probably PDC delay all other tracks because of the Latency Fixer.

Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on with my tests. Fingers crossed .

[ThomasHelzle]

I found a way to try it here with my CS1X and it seems the plugin doesn't let Midi through, but everything seemed to work as expected when I put the plugin after the Hardware Instrument. I could set the reported latency in realtime while running the timeline. I'm no expert with these things but I was able to align a drum pattern from the external synth with one generated in BWS with plugins.

I hope you experts can confirm this and maybe add to it.

I had to move the Voxengo Plugin also after the Hardware Instrument to make it work.

Cheers,

Tom

[TeePee]

I thought I'd do a simple test, before attempting ThomasHelzle's test/fix:


Hardware Monitoring with the Hardware Instrument Plugin
(Test 1)

If you record, will bitwig adjust for the roundtrip or will everything be out of sync? I plan to hardware monitor my synths, but every now and then record a loop.

Bitwig should adjust for the roundtrip by applying Recording Latency Compensation (RLC/RDC), which must be switched on in Options. Bitwig looks up the roundtrip latency reported by your audio drivers and moves your new recordings a roundtrip earlier.

The Roundtrip latency should only be removed/compensated when hardware monitoring, NOT software monitoring. RLC should not be applied to software monitored inputs.

The problem is, many interfaces don't report their correct latency, including mine. We need an RLC offset, and that offset should be added to the roundtrip latency used by Bitwig.

For now, let's assume your interface is reporting it's latency correctly.


PDC and Recording Latency

As well as removing roundtrip latency from recordings, DAWs should also remove PDC latency from recordings. The longest PDC delay should be added to the RLC figure. Bitwig should know what the longest PDC delay is. If it didn't know this figure, it would mean PDC is broken. It's a very simple fix, and I'm shocked that none of the DAW makers have figured out something so blindingly obvious! In Logic, I achieve the same effect by manually adding the longest PDC delay to the recording delay/offset. It's that simple - 2 integer numbers added together!

PDC latency should be removed/compensated from recordings when hardware monitoring. In other words, RDC (RLC) should compensate for PDC.

So, if you have any high latency plugins anywhere in a Bigwig song, your recordings will be late. Yep, that's right. PDC delays make your recordings late. But it's easily fixed ^^^.


It get's worse. I tested the Hardware Instrument plugin with a separate click track that had Pro-Q inserted (PDC delay = 3072 samples). Bitwig isn't delaying the MIDI to line up with the audio at the outputs. It should be slowing pre-recorded MIDI clips down to compensate because it can't PDC Delay hardware monitored audio. So now your synth's audio will be heard too early, but your recordings will be on time!

If you don't have any high latency plugins causing PDC delays, you'll be OK. That's not good enough for me.


In summary, you'll be OK recording your hardware monitored synths if:

- Your audio interface is reporting it's latency correctly.

- You don't have any high PDC delays. If you do, your MIDI will be early, and your synths audio will be heard earlier than everything else. PDC Delay needs to applied to the MIDI too (when hardware monitoring a synth). I don't think live MIDI keyboard playing should be delayed though.


PS. Don't set the "Audio In" on the Hardware Instrument plugin. Use a separate audio track. I encountered feedback problems trying to record to a hybrid track.

[Crackbaby]

High latency plugins .. hmm.. do you know if there are any of those included in bitwig? Im running Linux and only use the included ones (as there's not much else to get )