Undo/redo not working as expected or missing entirely

[Ch00rD]

The undo/redo functions do not seem to work properly for many things, such as (m)any (?) automation editing actions editing in the Edit Panel Layout. The menu clearly shows the menu/redo actions, yet they fail to work as expected.

I have created a short video (7.2MB .MP4) to illustrate this issue.

In other cases indo /redo is apparently not supported, where it is arguably (highly) expected for the sake of consistency and usability, such as when adjusting plug-in parameters (while using the GUI of Bitwig's Device Panel - in contrast, this does work for native devices); assigning Common Parameters to plug-in parameters (while it does work for e.g. assigning Macros to plug-in parameters). This is very inconsistent, and severely frustrates editing in BWS. I find this highly annoying, to the point of the undo/redo function not being useful at all - an undo function which only partially affects previous edits simply messes up the project state, and can be very confusing.

Also, the User Manual doesn't even mention the undo/redo function; it should arguably at least explain in which cases undo / redo may be expected to work.

[takaii]

Ive noticed that it actually is a GUI bug. it does undo but the automation in edit view do not update...

i undo but the interface of automation do not update in clip edit view only in arranger. but when i change anything new then the gui of automation update to the recent.

gui bug.gif

[Tearing Riots]

In other cases indo /redo is apparently not supported, where it is arguably (highly) expected for the sake of consistency and usability, such as when adjusting plug-in parameters (while using the GUI of Bitwig's Device Panel - in contrast, this does work for native devices)

I´m torn on this issue, having witnessed undo becoming completely useless in other DAWs after getting spammed by parameter change info from vsts. But it would be very useful of course, maybe make it optional?

[llze]

@Ch00rD: please send this out to support(at)bitwig.com
Some months back things like this (maybe not exact this) were reported, and the Bitwig devs were eagerly lookig for user feedback on situations where undo/redo does not work correctly and i think not much feedback has been given (at least looks like). So i think this is still the case and they (and also we as users..) would be very happy to have this working 100% so send it to support to get it filed and hopefully solved.

Same as all other stuff you find, Bug reports go to support directly..thx!
I also trust you to be able to judge stuff like this as a bug or user error, so no real need for you to discuss them here, since you already know it's a bug.

[Ch00rD]

@Ch00rD: please send this out to support(at)bitwig.com
Some months back things like this (maybe not exact this) were reported, and the Bitwig devs were eagerly lookig for user feedback on situations where undo/redo does not work correctly and i think not much feedback has been given (at least looks like). So i think this is still the case and they (and also we as users..) would be very happy to have this working 100% so send it to support to get it filed and hopefully solved.

I have already reported this issue to tech support as well. Their response confirms what Ronny stated above as well: when editing automation in the Edit Panel Layout, the bug is merely a visual issue (GUI not updating properly) and was already known to them.

The lack of undo/redo for VST parameter adjustments apparently is a design choice, as to prevent flooding the undo history with many undo steps for e.g. a single knob turn.

The lack of undo/redo for the common parameter pages was more an oversight than a bug, and can be explained by the fact that these are global for devices in all projects.

Same as all other stuff you find, Bug reports go to support directly..thx!

Yes, I routinely send issues I post here to tech support as well.

I also trust you to be able to judge stuff like this as a bug or user error, so no real need for you to discuss them here, since you already know it's a bug.

I'm still such a noob Bitwig user that you probably should not trust my judgements about user error vs. bugs - not yet, anyway.

I disagree about that last bit - as long as there is no way for users to find out which issues have already been reported (like a publicly accessible bug tracker), I think there is a great need for users to report issues publicly as well, and since this is Bitwig's 'official' forum, I can't think of a better place to post them. In the same vein, I sincerely appreciate any other users posting Bitwig issues here, since that allows others like myself to find out about them before stumbling over them ourselves. As such, this may very likely save us some time, and prevent some confusion and annoyance.

[Ch00rD]

I´m torn on this issue, having witnessed undo becoming completely useless in other DAWs after getting spammed by parameter change info from vsts. But it would be very useful of course, maybe make it optional?

I would agree that it may be better to have no undo / redo at all (like in real life ) than it becoming useless due to an excessive amount of undo steps.

Still, I think there are ways to do this in a more intelligent manner. For those cases where VST parameters are adjusted using the GUI of Bitwig Studio (rather than their own GUI windows, for which I’m aware that this isn’t possible to do reliably and consistently for VST2.x plug-ins), I think it would be feasible to undo changes; it would merely require Bitwig Studio to remember the value before touching a control, and using that value for storing a single undo step for the parameter change when (the pointer left-click on) that control is released.

[TeotiGraphix]

I´m torn on this issue, having witnessed undo becoming completely useless in other DAWs after getting spammed by parameter change info from vsts. But it would be very useful of course, maybe make it optional?

I would agree that it may be better to have no undo / redo at all (like in real life ) than it becoming useless due to an excessive amount of undo steps.

Still, I think there are ways to do this in a more intelligent manner. For those cases where VST parameters are adjusted using the GUI of Bitwig Studio (rather than their own GUI windows, for which I’m aware that this isn’t possible to do reliably and consistently for VST2.x plug-ins), I think it would be feasible to undo changes; it would merely require Bitwig Studio to remember the value before touching a control, and using that value for storing a single undo step for the parameter change when (the pointer left-click on) that control is released.

I know Maschine has the concept of Step Undo and Undo. Where the application determines what a "group" of undos is and when creating the stack manages the groups.

So if VSTs were adding major undos at once, Bitwig would consider that a step and you could undo that whole step or each individual undo in the group.

If you did an undo on a whole group, that is one undo and you are back to the Bitwig UI undos, its an interesting concept Bitwig should think about.

Mike

[c-wave]

I know Maschine has the concept of Step Undo and Undo. Where the application determines what a "group" of undos is and when creating the stack manages the groups.

So if VSTs were adding major undos at once, Bitwig would consider that a step and you could undo that whole step or each individual undo in the group.

If you did an undo on a whole group, that is one undo and you are back to the Bitwig UI undos, its an interesting concept Bitwig should think about.

Mike

+1 Yes.Very interesting.

[takaii]

I´m torn on this issue, having witnessed undo becoming completely useless in other DAWs after getting spammed by parameter change info from vsts. But it would be very useful of course, maybe make it optional?

I would agree that it may be better to have no undo / redo at all (like in real life ) than it becoming useless due to an excessive amount of undo steps.

Still, I think there are ways to do this in a more intelligent manner. For those cases where VST parameters are adjusted using the GUI of Bitwig Studio (rather than their own GUI windows, for which I’m aware that this isn’t possible to do reliably and consistently for VST2.x plug-ins), I think it would be feasible to undo changes; it would merely require Bitwig Studio to remember the value before touching a control, and using that value for storing a single undo step for the parameter change when (the pointer left-click on) that control is released.

I know Maschine has the concept of Step Undo and Undo. Where the application determines what a "group" of undos is and when creating the stack manages the groups.

So if VSTs were adding major undos at once, Bitwig would consider that a step and you could undo that whole step or each individual undo in the group.

If you did an undo on a whole group, that is one undo and you are back to the Bitwig UI undos, its an interesting concept Bitwig should think about.

Mike

please write that to techsupport i once told i wanted undo and redo for vst but they said it want possible or they meant as current i dont know since it was not disscussed I think you as devoloper are better at having this conversation

[Bobby L'Avenir]

Knew is wasn't me going crazy as it's a bug that clearly has been an issue in the past. Anyone else getting no option to undo in 1.3.1?

[SB-SIX]

Yes undo is working unreliable for me too. Sometimes it works and sometimes it says it has nothing to undo.

[Tearing Riots]

The undo breaks, that bug was gone for a while, now it´s back more vile than ever.
Restarting BWS helps, still a nasty bug that can lead to hours lost.
Save often, save different versions until this is sorted out.

[fartooloud]

Yes I've had this too since 1.3.1 update. After working on a session for a while suddenly the option to undo is greyed out in the edit menu and I can't undo anything. Have tried to figure out if anything is triggering this but no success yet.

[Kung VU]

Today I created a project exclusively with Bitwig devices. I had 17 tracks (6 of them deactivated) and somehow it started to behave very odd. Somehow changing velocity values with the mouse did not work very smoothly in that project, but that was just the beginning. Next I could not undo/redo anymore. Then I could not restart the engine (which often fixes problems for me), it would just immediately switch back on. The saving dialog was broken no matter if I choose save, save as or collect and save. I could not close the project or Bitwig itself. The only thing left for me was to force quit Bitwig and see if it actually saved but did not show this properly via the asterisk indicator. But no. The saved project was at a very early stage and hours of work were lost.

The saved early stage project was totally fine, so I had nothing to send to the support.
At least I made a video showing most of the bugs. Heres a link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/542 ... 0.10.2.m4v

[David Boura]

Today I created a project exclusively with Bitwig devices. I had 17 tracks (6 of them deactivated) and somehow it started to behave very odd. Somehow changing velocity values with the mouse did not work very smoothly in that project, but that was just the beginning. Next I could not undo/redo anymore. Then I could not restart the engine (which often fixes problems for me), it would just immediately switch back on. The saving dialog was broken no matter if I choose save, save as or collect and save. I could not close the project or Bitwig itself. The only thing left for me was to force quit Bitwig and see if it actually saved but did not show this properly via the asterisk indicator. But no. The saved project was at a very early stage and hours of work were lost.

The saved early stage project was totally fine, so I had nothing to send to the support.
At least I made a video showing most of the bugs. Heres a link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/542 ... 0.10.2.m4v

Next time, try to drag & drop your work to a new tab and see if at least saving works.
Maybe also try to save your instruments/presets/midi patterns, and take a screenshot of your automations, in the extreme case? I'd be interested to know if it does work then